Cinecast Episode 471 – Bronze is Better Than Silver

While we have two new theatrical reviews this week, the first review is mostly a Kurt monologue while with the second, it’s mostly Andrew’s mic and podium. I expect some disagreement from the peanut gallery in both cases. We talk a little bit about the upcoming summer films of 2017 and how our hope is reinvigorated for the blockbuster. Andrew is still playing some catch up with 2016 including more (yes, more!) Michael Shannon and the controversial personalities of Nate Parker and Mel Gibson. Kurt heads back to 1985 with Mickey Rourke for a couple of hours and is baffled that the bedlam on display was blocked from his memory. In a moment of fantasy speculation, we ponder the effects on the careers of Bruce Willis and Mickey Rourke had their roles been flip-flopped. We’ll be back next week with some of Godzilla’s ancestry in China and some sci-fi body horror from Gore Verbinski.

As always, please join the conversation by leaving your own thoughts in the comment section below and again, thanks for listening!

We’re now available on Google Play!

 

 
 


TIME TRACKS:

Opening: :00 – 5:16
Toni Erdmann review: 5:16 – 52:25
John Wick Chapter Two: 52:26 – 1:18:13
Upcoming Blockbuster trailers: 1:18:14 – 1:21:17
The Watch List: 1:21:19 – 2:39:07
Next week/Outro: 2:39:09 – 2:44:00
Closing Music: 2:40:40 – 2:45:22


MAIN REVIEWS:

Toni Erdmann
John Wick: Chapter 2


THE WATCH LIST:

ANDREW
Frank and Lola
The Birth of a Nation
Hacksaw Ridge

KURT
Year of the Dragon


OTHER THINGS:

Congratulations to our pal, Peter Kuplowsky, on his new rank of Midnight Madness programmer at TIFF!
Imogen Poots!


RSS AND CONTACT INFO:

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antho42
Guest

Did anyone else get a Fifth Element vibe from the Rome party scene in John Wick 2?

schizopolis
Guest

Saw Toni Erdmann yesterday and John Wick 2 today. Finally, an episode I can listen to all the way through right away.

Year of the Dragon too! Already a good night.

Kurt
Guest

We like you too!

schizopolis
Guest

Mickey Rourke was in a Die Hard movie called Point Blank in the mid 90’s. VOD trash, Die Hard meets Con-Air. It’s god awful! Not even B-movie worthy.

I saw Year of the Dragon in theatres with friends on my 13th birthday. Rewatching it now, I still see it through my 80’s lens and I dig it like a Zack Snyder movie. Rourke is at an 11 and I love it. The premise is like every 80’s action-crime film, but you’re 100% right, Cimino treats the material like an epic.

Kurt Halfyard
Guest

This would make a superb double bill with James Glickenhaus’ SHAKEDOWN (1988) with Peter Weller and Sam Elliot, also douche-y to the max, and way off kilter in tone, violence, drama and action (I say this in a good way, because movies this weird are so rarely made with the kind of production design and budget afforded YEAR OF THE DRAGON and SHAKEDOWN.)

schizopolis
Guest

Shakedown was a recent re-discovery! Hardly memorable when I saw it back in the late 80’s/early 90’s. Then saw I last year on HBO Go and loved it! Glickenhaus is kind of a poor man’s Cimino.

Agree with you guys on Toni Erdmann and John Wick 2, but I think I liked them a little more. I really dug the action in Wick 2, but I agree that it got repetitive. Almost every sequence I was smiling, then it kept going for another 2-3 minutes, overstaying its welcome.

I thought the ending of Toni Erdmann was the right ending. The daughter is still a mess and like every other classic European drama, they either end tragically or ambiguously. No cheap American resolution. The symbolism of that “petit four” hit me like a ton of bricks after the movie. Her and that male co-worker were just using each other. For him, it’s just sex and for her, she gets some control over him at the office. Later, when he shows up at her birthday party, it’s obvious there’s no trust or real connection. Everything was a kinky power play.

devolutionary
Guest

Though I recall it did well at the box office, Ridley Scott’s Black Rain also comes to mind. It does seem to be forgotten in his filmography and the writing lets it down. That’s another action movie with a ho-hum convoluted plot about American cops in over their heads in the Far East underworld. Ridley does direct the hell out of some scenes though (he loves his smoke); great sound design too. Although it feels slick in comparison to Year of the Dragon, YOTD needs a rewatch as I haven’t seen it in years.

devolutionary
Guest

Which of course Kurt mentions for 20 seconds. Rising Sun has similar bad stereotypes about Asians too, not to mention the laughable casting of Sean Connery as a Japanese relations expert. Curious if it’s accurate to the Michael Crichton book.

Robert Reineke
Guest

The book Rising Sun is perhaps more an example of Yellow Peril than the film, if that’s possible. And, yeah, Crichton wrote that with Connery clearly in mind, his star from The Great Train Robbery.

Robert Reineke
Guest

Really enjoyed the Toni Erdmann conversation, although I found it surprising that you two managed to skip over the musical number. Just shows how packed the movie is.

I would disagree with the idea that there wasn’t politics in the film. It’s all in the background, often literally, as these Western Europeans are surrounded by poverty, which they’re semi-oblivious too. They’re involved in taking resources from the country and they return none of the wealth they created to the people. People that they’ll likely recommend be fired to be replaced with even cheaper foreign labor while they build shopping malls for the foreign executive class.

No wonder nobody is happy. No wonder, everyone is wearing expensive clothes as armor or other disguises about their true nature.

So, yeah, there’s a reason that a movie as long as it is doesn’t really drag. It’s throwing a lot at the audience while not taking the easy way out. Heck, even Winifred doesn’t escape criticism while he might in a Mrs. Doubtfire type safe comedy.

Andrew James
Admin

I was about to talk about the musical number and then immediately got sidetracked by talk about the tribal outfit/mask thing.

It’s rare we get a full musical number like this in a film that’s not a musical (actually that would make a good LetterBoxd list). Off the top of my head I can think of Carrie Mulligan in “Shame” and the musical number in “A Life Less Ordinary.”

“No wonder nobody is happy. No wonder, everyone is wearing expensive clothes as armor or other disguises about their true nature.”

We also got sidetracked before I was about to talk about how in that beginning birthday party scene Ines is caught by her father lying to her mother about being on the phone. She then proceeds to pretend she’s in the middle of a very important phone call with someone; even though it’s obvious she’s faking it. That’s an interesting scene that tells us a lot about her character. But like you said, the film is so packed it’s a little moment that’s forgotten about by the end.

Sean Kelly
Guest

Jack Nicholson actually made two films after THE DEPARTED – The Bucket List in 2007 and How Do You Know in 2010.

The TONI ERDMANN remake will be produced by Adam MacKay and Will Ferrell, which isn’t quite Happy Madison, but not far off.

Andrew James
Admin

Right. I think he didn’t announce his “retirement” until 2013 sometime when it became clear he wasn’t appearing in as many roles anymore.

I didn’t ever mean to imply that he retired after “The Departed.” Although that title would’ve been apropos.

filmstache
Guest

Im just glad to hear a new episode!

Kurt Halfyard
Guest

From the beginning of that opening quote in the show. You get a sense of what I forgot to mention, how at odds the score is with the rest of the film. It’s like the score kicks in or disappears at random and has nothing to do with anything. Very weird.

Andrew James
Admin

Haha. It’s funny you mention that. When I found the clip and that music kicked in, the first thing I thought was “goddamit, what web site am I on (in another tab) that is auto-playing music and fucking up my recording!?… … oh, it’s just Michael Cimino.”

Sean Kelly
Guest

THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST was actually not much of an Oscar contender, with it only getting nominations for Cinematography, Score, and Make-Up.

Maybe it’s my Catholic upbringing, but I loved the film the one and only time I saw it.

Sean Kelly
Guest

I saw an advanced screening of THE GREAT WALL last night. It looks pretty, but it ain’t all that exciting. At least the film is less white-washed than I feared (with the film only having three non-Chinese actors).

Andrew James
Admin

I loved it. Like seriously loved it. Perfect length for some Zhang Yimou tom-foolery.

Gerry
Guest

I’m looking forward to hearing your review of it then. Up until this point I’d been put off seeing it by the reviews.

Gerry
Guest

Re Kurt’s comments about Mel Gibson’s extreme ugliness, I’m not so sure Mel Gibson is anti semitic. It seems to me that his drunken anti Jewish rants were less to do with anti-semitism than being the product of the distorted perspective and detachment from reality of a Hollywood golden boy.

Gibson was seemingly born with a cinematic silver spoon in his mouth (regardless of the circumstances of his actual upbringing), his path to stardom as an actor and then director being seemingly quite easy, as opposed to how hard it can be for aspiring film-makers to get their maiden low budget films made.

When Hollywood moved the film-making goalposts, as it periodically does when responding to cinematic trends and shifts in what it percieves to be the types of films that are succeeding in generating revenue, (Hollywood is essentially a business, not a forum for cineastes to flaunt their talent) and made it harder to make his big budget type of film, the golden Gibson, having been handed everything on a plate up until that point, seemingly was frustrated with the people blocking his talent, which, as everyone surely knew, was vast and godlike.

The people running Hollywood are stereotypically percieved to be Jewish (I have no frickin’ idea whether this is true, partially true or not true at all – I’m not a fan of stereotypes and I’m very suspicious of ‘perceptions’ as, for example, mis-perceptions of Jewish people in Nazi Germany, and in Germany for hundreds of years before this, resulted in the pre-meditated murder of more than six million Jews).

I think Gibson ranted against Jewish people not because he genuinely hates / hated Jewish people, but because of a sense of dis-gruntlement regarding the people he percieved to be blocking his undisputed talent.

If the people percieved to be running Hollywood were Irish I’m sure the drunken rants would have been about the fuckin’ Irish, or if they were percieved to be white anglo saxon protestants the rants would probably have been about fuckin’ WASPs.

The recent revelations about Johnny Depp’s spending habits, if true, would seem to indicate that Hollywood stars, like Gibson, who generate vast income are fairly detached from the reality that we ordinary folk have to live in.

Whatever Gibson’s motivations, if you’re Jewish and you hear that someone has ranted fairly hatefully about your people, that is horrible.

I’m a lifelong agnostic but grew up in Northern Ireland ostensibly as a member of a particular religion and hearing people rant against ‘my people’ in sectarian terms was very definitely not pleasant.

However nasty Gibson’s rants felt they’re not in the same universe as the systematic peddling of anti-semitic nonsense and resulting persecution and murder of Jewish people in Germany over hundreds of years.

Given the the seeming Netflixification of current cinema the Hollywood superstar of old seems less likely in the future.

Who’s in consideration to direct one of modern day Hollywood’s blockbusters, Suicide Squad 2, why Mel Gibson of course. That guy owes some people in Hollywood some serious thanks. If he isn’t picked to direct it let’s hope he’ll have more of a sense of perpective this time round.

Gerry
Guest

I read this in the Daily Beast today.

To recap: Gibson said that the “Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world” (his father is a Holocaust denier); said that his former fiancée deserved to be “raped by a pack of niggers; ranted against “wetbacks”; threatened to kill New York Times reporter Frank Rich; unleashed a homophobic tirade, wherein he said, “They take it up the ass… [pointing to his butt] this is only for taking a shit” (of the comments, he said, “I’ll apologize when hell freezes over”); and, last but certainly not least, punched his ex-fiancée in the face, shattering her teeth. If a woman or a person of color did even one of those things, they’d be chased out of Hollywood. It’s bonkers.

Yeesh! The only thing I was aware of was the drunken rants against ‘the Jews’.

I think Kurt’s description was right.