Mamo #343: I Think She’s Had Work Done

Oscar fallout! Mamo welcomes special guest star Dan Gorman from See You Next Wednesday to discuss the Kim Novak / plastic surgery issue, as raised in the previous episode. Are women, Hollywood, beauty, youth, and our expectations a circular clustercuss?

To download this episode, use this URL: http://rowthree.com/audio/mamo/mamo343.mp3

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Sean Kelly
Guest

I just think that plastic surgery in Hollywood is just sad and I really wish that more would choose to age gracefully. While most people are talking about how Kim Novak looked, I was also bothered by how Goldie Hawn looked (and I really hope Kate Hudson doesn’t follow in her footsteps).

Antho42
Guest

Here is the thing: I do not for sure whether plastic surgery produces mostly bad results. If it is good surgery, then people would probably not notice. I really do not know…. because I know South Korea is really into plastic surgery, and the results are not terrible, for the most part.

Rick Vance
Guest

Listening to you guys talk about those causes reminded me of a bit I read about Rob Zombie’s 2013 Lords of Salem which deliberately stars for the most part a group of women who were aged out of the Hollywood star system as a coven of witches.

Kurt
Guest

Goldblum nails the plastic surgery “It Doesn’t Work.” angle in 2002.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXLEr6THQjs

Robert Reineke
Guest

Are we including breast implants in the plastic surgery discussion? That’s one where you can say it’s a positive economic result for certain entertainers.

Sean Kelly
Guest

That’s a whole other bag of worms.

Matt Brown
Guest

I was angling to bring this up on the show but there was never an organic opportunity. Yes, all part of the same conversation, efficacy notwithstanding. Certainly, breast implants are a more direct example of “doing X will get you Y” in terms of marketability in the adult industry. Cosmetic work in the non-porn side of the business tends to be more vague in cause and effect.

There are miles and miles of slippery slope here, from Photoshopping magazine images down to labiaplasty and other extreme forms of body modification. Nips and tucks, and breast implants, seem like a kind of marginally benign middle ground where actresses (and actors) feel they can enhance or extend their hireability through surgical means.

What really creeps me out about the middle ground, though, is the guesswork. At least with the porn industry, one might actually receive as coherent an instruction as: “If you get breast implants, you will be hired for this job.” I wonder (and do not know one way or the other) if that kind of straightforwardness exists on the other side of the business.

Robert Reineke
Guest

I don’t think it’s just porn though. Pamela Anderson made millions by turning herself into a human Barbie doll without being a porn actress.

And, of course, I don’t think anyone would argue that Angelina Jolie, Christina Applegate, Kathy Bates, etc. made the wrong choice following a mastectomy. That certainly maximized the parts that they could go after.

Sean Kelly
Guest

Pamela Anderson was a Playboy model. That counts as (softcore) porn.

Matthew Price
Guest

I wouldn’t include breast implants, simply due to their relative aesthetic success compared to face work. Part of the point was that facial plastic surgery is a mistake because the results are so universally disregarded.

antho42
Guest

The South Korean have perfected the art of face surgery. However, it results in many Koreans ending up looking the same.

Matt Gamble
Guest

Nose jobs are probably the biggest one that gives positive economic results. It’s also one that we are pretty good at if they aren’t done again and again. Countless models, actors and actresses have had them done and it has helped boost their sex appeal and thus benefit their careers. Elizabeth Hurley is probably one of the best examples as she was a total unknown until her nose job (and a few other procedures) and it turned her into a supermodel almost overnight.

Kurt Halfyard
Guest

Except for Jennifer Gray who had a very distinctive nose, and then after the surgery she looked like every other 80s starlet, and stopped getting work.

Matt Gamble
Guest

And yet she keeps getting work done.

Gisele Bündchen
Winona Ryder
Shia LeBouf
Tyra Banks
Kate Moss
Christina Aguilera
Blake Lively
Scarlett Johansson
Patrick Dempsey
Courtney Love
Nicole Kidman
Jennifer Aniston
Salma Hayek
Tom Cruise
Natalie Portman
Jennifer Connelly
Cameron Diaz
Megan Fox
Hilary Duff
Zac Efron
Angelina Jolie
Katie Holmes
Kate Winslet
Kate Hudson
Mariah Carey
Halle Berry
Anne Hathaway
Beyonce

Seriously, the list goes on and on for nose jobs and that list above is about a 10 minute Internet search. People keep having plastic surgery because, in the vast majaority of cases, it works, and if its done well the general public will be none the wiser. Hell, Brad Pitt has had quite a bit of work done, he’s just chosen it wisely, and like the majority of Hollywood, has done it in small incremints so it isn’t noticeable.

Then of course we also have steroid and HGH abuse in Hollywood (especially with men) and all sorts of eating disorders effecting both genders.

At this point you kind of have to strike up all these things as the price of doing business when your looks are your business. Which is totally shitty, but I have no idea how the fuck to go about changing that and kudos to Mamo for at least making an actual effort to have some dialogue about it.

Kurt
Guest

Stallone? How old is Stallone, yet in the Expendables movies, he’s pretty ripped. Is that even possible for a 60-something man?

Goon
Guest

Can anyone think of cases where bad (or just obvious) plastic surgery worked to a benefit in a film or TV show? Or fit with a character?

The closest that comes to mind is that in the new season of Arrested Development, Portia de Rossi’s plastic surgery… it’s bad, it’s quite bad… but of all characters to have it, it doesn’t damage Lindsey Bluth as a character at all to have it.

Goon
Guest

edit: I can find nothing definitive but apparently De Rossi denies any surgery having taken place…

Matt Gamble
Guest

The Wrestler.

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[…] from Kim Novak’s appearance at The Oscars. The gents get into a really good discussion about the cyclical nature of celebrities’ physical […]