All I have to say is Tim League and the folks at the Alamo Drafthouse, you guys rock!
We wish more multiplexes were as proactive as you about dealing with the issue of bright white lights in the cinema from texting or web-browsing ignoramuses while the movie is playing.
This customer reaction (voicemail to customer service) to not being indulged with their digital device and overall rudeness is golden. The audio is embedded below, with text enhancement. Priceless.
This is my favourite thing of the month.
If more theatres acted like this, theatrical moviegoing would stand a chance at surviving the next ten years.
HA. I wish every theatre were assholes to people who text. It just makes me sad that people think there ought to be a sign or something specifically saying not to text. That ought to be common sense. And on the flashlight BS excuse, if it was too dark to get to your seat, maybe you should try being on time.
If that witch can prove that when she texted in all the other theatres in Austin, “nobody gave a fuck,” I will personally give her $1000.
I’m thinking by ‘nobody gave a fuck’ she means theatre staff/ushers, not the other customers, for which she has no actual awareness/regard for in the first place with that attitude.
‘Twas my point, yes.
In this instance, “nobody gave a fuck” means “nobody called me on it.” Because it’s not wrong if you don’t get called out and are oblivious to poisonous stares. :/
Buy more concessions so theatres can afford to pay someone to walk from screen to screen for 12 hours.
That being said their aren’t many chains that really care even when they have a ton of staffing, mainly because its a pretty thankless job and it brings about far more complaints than it does thanks.
I’m afraid I’m the worst paying customer to a movie theatre’s bottom line. At most I buy a coffee, and this only in the past dozen years or so when multiplexes started serving coffee.
I cannot bring myself to eat from the trough – no megasized popcorn or nachos and most definitely no trash-can sized cup of soda. It’s too expensive.
All that being said, I do buy 50+ movie tickets per year from AMC on top of all my festival viewing.
AMC doesn’t make anything off of ticket sales unless you are buying in roughly week 6 of the run. Same goes for pretty much every other theatre.
You spend $4+ at a concessions stand and you’re a quality customer.
I’m afraid I will NEVER be a quality customer to multiplexes then. I tend to see things first week, and I don’t buy concessions, even when I bring my kids, we bring in a zip-lok bag of old easter/halloween/etc. candy for them or dried fruit…
You aren’t a quality customer to arthouses either. Their per/caps tend to be even shittier than multiplexes putting even further strain on their profitability margins.
Which I find incredibly ironic, and even a little bit galling.
I don’t believe that movie houses are a charity business. This business of movie housing being ‘purveyors of junk food’ should stop, this is my voice as a customer.
I imagine me going to 50+ movies per year and not buying concessions is better than me going to 0 films per year, otherwise the movie business is more of a ponzi scheme than I imagined.
Theaters should change their businness model. Lower the price of food and/or offer awesome good such as kimichi quesadillas. They can also sell film merchandise.
In all fairness, rep-cinemas like The Bloor, The Revue and TIFF LIGHTBOX have membership fees (Bloor $3 per year, Revue $5 per year, that money goes to them, and I often lose my cards, thus buying a couple per year). The TIFF lightbox membership gets me a bunch of perks on admission fees, festival access, etc. etc. and I imagine the membership dues go directly to the theatres bottom line. I should also add that I generally get a better projection and overall cinema experience in those theatres than in the multiplex (but in all fairness AMC Canada is pretty good, and I don’t go to CINEPLEX if I can avoid it because their business policy and overall atmosphere sucks).
This again, is my voice as a paying customer.
When a big film gets released, such as the Batman film, they can sell Batman action figures and posters. The youngters would go crazy over the merchandize.
Do the Arclight model, charge 30-40% more for tickets and give a quality experience. Their theatres are always full, and I never see cellphones or hear talking. It’s totally worth the extra $5 or $6 for something I really want to see. They also have a full bar and restaurant – I’d be curious to know how much they make there vs. the concession stand (they also have the standard popcorn/soda stuff), but at least it’s the option for actual good food.
Jandy, this is especially attractive to young parents. If you are going to drop $25 on babysitting, make all the planning and arrangements for a night out, possibly pay for parking (if you are in the city), then the actual cost of the film ticket is actually not a big deal, and a 30% premium to ensure an interruption-free bit of movie-going entertainment is a no-brainer.
There is a reason why teenagers are one of the biggest customers at the films, and thus, the content starts to feedback loop into that demographic. I’m sure this whole thing can be fixed, and then teenagers can go back to playing video games and killing time bullying their classmates on facebook. Or whatever.
I hear people complain over and over about how bad the theatre-going experiences has gotten and how they only watch stuff at home now because of it, and the only thing I can think of is they don’t have good theatres near them, which is a function of the mall multiplex that’s the only theatre available outside big towns. I don’t know what can be done to change that. If we could somehow get the Arclight/Drafthouse experience in those places, I think most people’s issues with theatre-going would be fixed. Interestingly, both those chains focus on the experience as a whole and are rewarded for it.
Theaters should change their businness model. Lower the price of food and/or offer awesome good such as kimichi quesadillas.
More and more theatres are offering premium concessions, mine being among them. Plus theatres eat the costs on a host of things that customers are unaware of but would throw a fit about if taken away.
Rep-cinemas and other second-run houses also pay substantially lower film rental costs, and their is also a profitability model built in that if the movie does well during the run, the studio takes a larger cut, ensuring that both sides make a healthy profit if a run succeeds and minimizing the financial risk if the run doesn’t. Which is good because they have horrible per/caps too, so they actually rely on good ticket sales.
When a big film gets release, such as the Batman film, they can sell Batman action figures and posters. The youngters would go crazy over the merchandize.
First off, theatres don’t have the buying power of a retail chain so the merchandise they’d have to offer would be at a substantially higher cost. If they wanted something they could only offer at their chain they’d have to pay a substantial sum (often requiring them to outbid the other chains) in order to do so. On top of that, you’d then risk the ire of the other major studios if you didn’t do the same for them, thus ensuring that you’d have to be constantly buying yet another product from studios that will have a high ticket price and thus hard to move in substantial numbers. And lastly, you’ll have the non-major studios that may be pissed off enough by this whole affair that they up and refuse to offer you any of their films just because they can.
I don’t believe that movie houses are a charity business. This business of movie housing being ‘purveyors of junk food’ should stop, this is my voice as a customer.
Great, and the studio doesn’t give a shit what you want from the concession stand. They just want you to buy the ticket and the DVD, because that is how they make money. So they jack up rental rates and they shorten release windows.
And once again, arthouses like Landmark (where art is supposedly more important to the customer) do offer higher quality concessions on average, and their per caps are shit. Because people are cheap and claims of buying more if the quality is better and the prices are cheaper are nothing but lip service and bullshit. You can crow all you want about wanting higher quality from the stand but the metrics consistently show that the buying public doesn’t buy any more when prices are cheaper.
I imagine me going to 50+ movies per year and not buying concessions is better than me going to 0 films per year, otherwise the movie business is more of a ponzi scheme than I imagined.
Their isn’t a single first-run theatre that could survive on ticket sales alone. Is going to 50+ a year better? Sure, but they are still losing money on you, so its a relative term.
On the merchandise front, I remember the theater near me when I was a kid (which no longer exists funny enough) sold a ton of merchandising stuff. I still have my Return of the Jedi button collection I got from that theater and I remember when Burton’s Batman and the Jurassic Park movie came out, you could buy the little action figures, posters, t-shirts, etc.
I imagine the studio holds on to all that stuff these days and sells it through chain stores like Wal-Mart and Target. Still, a theater could get their hands on this stuff and sell it for really expensive could they not? And people (kids) would by it.
Do the Arclight model, charge 30-40% more for tickets and give a quality experience.
They still have to give it to the studios.
They also have a full bar and restaurant – I’d be curious to know how much they make there vs. the concession stand (they also have the standard popcorn/soda stuff), but at least it’s the option for actual good food.
It should be noted that this is how Arclight and Drafthouse and the ICONs like my theatre stay open, by charging a premium price on premium concessions. Their per caps are ridiculously good because of it, and can help the theatres pay for more staff and more upkeep of the theatres.
Couldn’t theaters demand a higher percentage of the ticket price? Matt Gamble, the world you’re describing sounds so bleak.
Matt, then why don’t more theatres do it? If AMC did it at all their theatres, it would be a substantial shift in theatre quality everywhere in North America. Are the start-up costs just too prohibitive on that scale? Or would audiences outside of major cities not go for the premium experience?
Couldn’t theaters demand a higher percentage of the ticket price? Matt Gamble, the world you’re describing sounds so bleak.
They’ve tried numerous times and its resulted in studios colluding to reduce release windows or withholding product altogether. You have to remember, up until the late 1980′s theatres had to bid against each other (even within the chains) for the right to show a particular title. And for most of the past 100 years theatres were family owned operations operating in regional settings, whereas studios had nationwide negotiating power. And now on-demand and Netflix and cable and etc even further reduce theatre’s bargaining power.
Matt, then why don’t more theatres do it? If AMC did it at all their theatres, it would be a substantial shift in theatre quality everywhere in North America. Are the start-up costs just too prohibitive on that scale? Or would audiences outside of major cities not go for the premium experience?
Startup cost for one is ridiculously expensive. Retrofitting a theatre ain’t cheap, and building a brand new one isn’t easy either. And yes, at the current time the belief that audiences won’t pay for it is still pretty prevalent. Smaller chains are changing to try and take advantage of the niche market, but that is still what it is viewed as. Plus, AMC and Regal are making a mint catering to tweens, why change what ain’t broken?
Well, the Carolina cinemas in Asheville serve premium food (Pulled Pork Pizza? Hells yea!) and have a dozen or so beers on tap that you can carry into the cinema (in a pint GLASS), it is very civilized. However, they are really stingy on projectionists, do not have cinemascope aspect ratio (WHAT?!) and generally cheap out on the tech side behind the scenes. Seems crazy, but them’s the facts. It made for more than a couple glitches at this years Action Fest which required many more prints assembled and handled compared to the regular cinema load. Still, this type of cinema is getting closer to the ideal. Just wish that all the cinemas didn’t skimp on their tech staff (lamp brightness, proper print assembly, and making sure the right lens is in place are all priorities when I pay my $11.
I don’t think its very wise to blame the theatergoer for not putting extra money into a system that doesn’t work for them either.
It may be callous but this is the theater owners problem, and not something you can pass the buck on to a movie watcher, telling them they’re a bad customer if they don’t want to douse their body with jacked up prices for smaller samples of mediocre-to-bad food.
I’ve watched as Cineplex added an UltraAVX screen to its cinema and I’ve complained about it to everyone that I can think of. Sure the screen is a bit bigger and supposedly the sound is a bit better. You also get a leather seat which leans back (the regular ones in the theatre also lean) and you get reserved seating. For all this you pay an extra 3 dollars on the regular price. It comes to $14 for a movie in the UltraAVX. Now in the mall cinema which has a smaller screen and comfortable enough chairs I can watch the same movie for $6. Guess which theatre I go to.
If you want to draw me into the your theatre do not have prices 2 and 1/3 times the cost and don’t try to trick me into paying more for 3D.
What I want is a good viewing experience and the choice of good food. I for one do enjoy the Popcorn and Drink and do pay for those. If the big Cineplex wants me to come it needs to offer me a better experience than the smaller theatre but at a slightly better cost. Have better food or have the reserved seating with better chairs. I will pay a couple of bucks extra for that but do not try to convince me it is worth 2 and 1/3 times the cost.
I would kill to have something like the Drafthouse here but I fully admit that it will never happen as Saskatoon is small enough for it not to be worth the setup cost involved.
What Goon said. The theatres offer no healthy food. Only junk food. Why should I buy shitty junk-food just to ‘help out the theatre’? Madness.
Hell, why can’t we as human beings go for 120 minutes without eating. I’ve never understood the food-movie connection.
And theatres that introduce fast food as an option, so I have to smell greasy burgers or french fries (or for that matter Nachoes) just kinda piss me off.
I like that the TIFF theatre has a screening series that specifies “no food” – people are there to watch the movies, not eat bad food.
Ultimately, Goon’s right, the whole thing is a systemic failure, and buying a few more bags of popcorn isn’t going to fix that anyway.
But also ultimately, the issue with people texting in the theatre is a systemic problem with society, not with theatre management. A theatre shouldn’t HAVE to go broke hiring extra ushers to make audience members adhere to common courtesy. That’s what has me aghast about texters. Not “why doesn’t the theatre do something about that,” but “how can people be such jerks.” The general self-absorption of modern society is appalling.
I got someone in trouble once and only once for texting, seeing the Dark Knight for the second time it just got on my nerves, but since i’d already seen it it was worth my time for me to do something about it. Funny enough it turned out the person she was texting… was sitting right behind me
Speaking of bad cinema experences, after that notice by Malick on precisely how Tree of Life should be shown I watched an advanced screening at the Varsity with the main actress in attendence with the first 15 minutes of the movie distorted by the sound of a crackling speaker… probably the worst sound distortion I have ever heard. I would gladly take someone texting over GRRRRRRRRRFFFTTPOPGGRRRRRRR during these quiet Malickian moments…
Should have waited for it to come to lightbox, Rot! So what did you think of tree of life?
Wait, wait, wait…We’re getting off track here. Let’s get back to what I think is the main point of this thread: There’s Pulled Pork Pizza in North Carolina?!?! Holy salivation factor…
Some interesting points, but it does come down to Jandy’s point about simply being aware of other people and showing some respect. Though I don’t run into this kind of rudeness as often in theatres as many of you do, I see it all the time elsewhere – people texting as they walk not watching where they’re going, suddenly stopping without thinking who is behind them, talking at HIGH volume on their phones…Just a general lack of awareness of their surroundings. Though, if I wanted to be really cranky and crotchety, I would say that they have a full awareness of their surroundings, but they just don’t care about the other people there. It’s all about them after all…
We need to coin a term. Cinequette? Cinetiquette? Cinethics?
I just wish there was a major chain other than Cineplex in my neck of the woods. I hate having 49 screens close to my house and having a choice of 14 films… as I look longingly at whats playing in Vancouver theatres. 5 mins to the cineplex… 60mins +++ to something better.
In Canada the Amc chain kicks Cineplexes ass on all fronts, from the customer experience point if view.
No talking or texting has been the policy at the Alamo Drafthouse cinemas for years. In addition, most of the time nobody under the age of 6 is allowed in the theater. If one is under 16, you must have an adult with you. What this means is quiet, no kids, BEER, and good food. It’s the best movie going experience in the world!
I don’t think its very wise to blame the theatergoer for not putting extra money into a system that doesn’t work for them either.
Its not blame, its fact. Theatres have limited revenue streams, so if customers refuse to engage in them than they have limited claim to expect a high quality product. Well, I suppose the theatre could just put on more ads before films and during the pre-show. No one is going to complain about that now are they?
What Goon said. The theatres offer no healthy food. Only junk food. Why should I buy shitty junk-food just to ‘help out the theatre’? Madness.
No theatre has ever offered any healthy food? Ever? Bullshit. Total fucking bullshit. On top of that, even offering healthy food doesn’t mean that’s actually what the movie-going public wants. If healthy options sold better than Icees and soda and candy they’d have more on the menu. Plain and simple.
I like that the TIFF theatre has a screening series that specifies “no food” – people are there to watch the movies, not eat bad food.
Good grief, self-aggrandize much? I’m surprised you even deign to go to any theatre, what with the rabble about. You might accidentally brush upon them and soil your waistcoat.
Just wish that all the cinemas didn’t skimp on their tech staff (lamp brightness, proper print assembly, and making sure the right lens is in place are all priorities when I pay my $11.
Buy concessions and maybe they could afford to buy a new $250K projector and pay a projectionist $65K a year to replace the $2500 lamphouse that busted because the $300 Xenon bulb blew when the 16 year old paid $7.25/hr didn’t change it correctly. Oh wait, the tech side is by far the most expensive (outside of possibly rent) so of course that is where they cut costs first.
If you want to draw me into the your theatre do not have prices 2 and 1/3 times the cost and don’t try to trick me into paying more for 3D.
3D surcharges go to the studios and the 3D company, not the theatre. If the theatre doesn’t charge for it they must pay it out of pocket. Also, you have the choice to buy the more expensive seats or not to. You aren’t being forced and you certainly aren’t being scammed. Why? Because the cost to the theatre for the $14 ticket is most likely somewhere around $13, not $6. And the price for the $6 very well might be $7 that the theatre is paying out of pocket to keep the price down. But hey, it sure is easy to just blame the theatre which doesn’t actually set the prices at all. Do you blame gas stations for gas prices? You know they don’t make any money on gas either, right?
Christ, this sounds like Kurt whining about having to pay for more for his increased cable use. “What? For a better product and better services I have to pay more? That is sooooo unfair!!!”
If you want to draw me into the your theatre do not have prices 2 and 1/3 times the cost
It should also be pointed out that standard retail markup is 300%. I assume you throw just as big a fit about buying anything at any retail store?
Theaters should charge 20 to 30 bucks a ticket ( like in Japan). That will get rid of the teenagers and the annoying people.
Make a theater a luxury experience, not a daycare.
The Japanese appear to solve the theater dilemma:
http://blog.thejapanesetutor.com/the-japanese-cinema-experience-2010-05/
http://jaimieinjapan.blogspot.com/2010/11/cinema-experience.html
Theater chain should stop being lazy — they should conduct cross-state/cross-national analysis of theater experience, in order to find the best solutions.
Theater chains need to think outside the box. A business model that depends on selling 6 dollars popcorn is not a sound model. Innovation leads to success; laziness leads to stagnation.
I think you have a bad way of framing it Gamble. But over priced concessions are not the solution to all the theaters woes, and be that at it may in terms of 300% retail mark-up, I’m thinking the mark-up on popcorn and soda has to be in the 2000% mark-up. Not that I would buy it if they cut the price in half, there is a kajillion calories in both, if you wonder why mainstream multiplex movies are treated like irrelevant junk commodities, it might be the association of MASSIVE quantities of horrible food to go along with the experience… just sayin’
So, there’s nothing to be done, then, Gamble? We’re all just stuck in an endless cycle of paying for food we don’t want to support experiences we don’t like in order to keep theatre chains afloat so studios can keep making bad movies? Fun times. It can’t last, though – when I can wait 3 months and buy a blu-ray for the same price that my boyfriend and I can go to the movies now (without concessions – include concessions, and the blu-ray is similar to me going to the theatre alone), the theatre doesn’t offer anything but an experience. If they don’t offer a good experience to make me want to go there instead of buying the blu-ray, then they deserve to go out of business.
Question: If theatres in the US did go out of business, would studios be making enough in international revenue and DVD sales/rentals to make up for it? In other words, would it be true to say that the studios don’t need the domestic theatrical market? If that’s NOT true, then theoretically the theatre chains could band together and protest the high ticket percentages the studios take.
Another question: A friend of mine in Britain has a membership card for his local cinema; he pays around 20 pounds a month and can go see any film they show for no extra charge. That puts him in the cinema five or six times a week, buying concessions. That seems like a win for both customer (who gets to see more movies without paying more, aside from concessions) and theatre (which gets more concession sales because he’s there more often). Why aren’t there programs ilke that in the US, that I know of? Do the studios block it in the US and just not have the power to do that in the UK?
Yet another question: You mentioned that the studios take most of the $16.50 I pay at Arclight just like they pay most of the $12 I pay at AMC. Do the studios subsidize “premium” theatre experiences like Arclight’s additional ushers and reserved seating system? (Leaving aside the bar and restaurant for now, as those generate revenue in and of themselves.) If not, then why should the studios get a percentage of the upcharge those theatres charge? If I’m paying $4.50 more to get Arclight-quality service, then the theatre should get that as they’re the ones providing that service.
Theaters should charge 20 to 30 bucks a ticket ( like in Japan). That will get rid of the teenagers and the annoying people.
A growing number of theatres do. But when you crank up ticket prices you dial way down on the number of people who attend unless you truly do sink a ton of money into making that premium ticket worthwhile. And even then you have tons of people like John screaming foul when a theatre attempts to do such a thing. And once again, raising ticket prices does not mean more money for the theatre, that number pretty much stays the same whatever the ticket price is.
And no, it doesn’t get rid of annoying people, in fact it increases them as the customer base feels far more entitled.
Still, a theater could get their hands on this stuff and sell it for really expensive could they not? And people (kids) would by it.
But they wouldn’t buy much. Landmark has pretty done away with selling DVD’s and movie related items because they were losing money on it. Most other theatres realized it wasn’t a viable revenue stream some time ago. You have to realize that outside of AMC and Regal, the vast majority of theatres are family owned businesses with limited capitol and buying power. Selling retail items is a potentially huge financial investment with a ton of risk and not much reward.
Theater chain should stop being lazy — they should conduct cross-state/cross-national analysis of theater experience, in order to find the best solutions.
Why would you ever think that they don’t?
A business model that depends on selling 6 dollars popcorn is not a sound model.
That’s the business model of pretty much the entire entertainment venue industry. Clubs don’t make money from the cover charge, they make it from alcohol sales. Sports franchises don’t make a ton of money on ticket sales, but make it up on concessions and merchandise. IMAX loses money with its theatres, but makes it up with its licensing. Even big venues for concerts (operas, plays and what have you) don’t really make money on ticket sales, but rely on endowments to remain viable. When it comes to the arts venues just don’t make much money, if at all.
Then of course you have places like gas stations which are dependant on coffee and cigarette sales to drives their profitability. Coffee shops rely on 2000%+ markups on their primary items to survive, and bars/restaurants which need alcohol sales and their massive markups to stay afloat. The concept of taking your primary revenue stream and upping the price to maximize profitability is hardly a new one or unique to theatres. They just happen to be in a position where the majority of their revenue streams directly impact viewing experience, so they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
I like Drafthouse Cinemas as much as the next guy, but they aren’t reinventing the wheel. They rely as much on concession sales to drive their profitiability as much as any other theatre.
But over priced concessions are not the solution to all the theaters woes, and be that at it may in terms of 300% retail mark-up, I’m thinking the mark-up on popcorn and soda has to be in the 2000% mark-up.
And ticket sales are 0-5% and often loss-leaders. The only huge markups in the stand are popcorn and soda, everything else is the standard 300%, it only looks high because theatres don’t have the buying power of grocery stores or retail stores who can churn through massive amounts of product and thus lower the cost of items through sheer purchasing power.
Popcorn’s healthiness is utterly dependant on what kind of oil it is cooked in. Most theatres have done away with coconut oil due to complaints about its high level of calories and its saturated fat content. But once again, if people actually bought healthier food when it is offered theatres would sell more of it, but that simply isn’t the case.
I’m not saying theatres shouldn’t offer better food (either healthier or higher quality), I’m all for it. But you are talking about a huge financial investment that most theatres simply can not afford (let alone have the space for), especially when the studios just came out and said that if they don’t upgrade to digital projectors then starting in 2013 they won’t be getting any movies.
Back on the original post for a second – here’s a whole bunch of other awesome Drafthouse PSAs: http://www.badassdigest.com/2011/06/07/an-epic-history-of-the-alamo-drafthouse-dont-talk-psas
It is sad but I really do think the days of good theatre going experience are numbered in all but the big cities. In small cities you will just have the chains and they will always market to the lowest common denominator. In the big cities someone can possibly look at setting up a premium theatre that offers a much better experience such as what the Drafthouse does.
In medium and smaller cities you will still have independent theatres but they will rely on booking events in order to make money as audiences just don’t come out in large to smaller independents in most cases.
There are more and more options for watching a movie earlier all the time and home theatres are getting better and better. The only way to compete with this is to lower prices to bring out more people which will not work as prices for screenings are already so low that they need the junk food. Being like the Drafthouse and actually telling people to shut up and to be respectful won’t work for big chains as they don’t want to lose the teenage crowd who are coming to the movies not to watch the movie but to have fun with their friends.
So, there’s nothing to be done, then, Gamble? We’re all just stuck in an endless cycle of paying for food we don’t want to support experiences we don’t like in order to keep theatre chains afloat so studios can keep making bad movies?
No, I think there is things that could be done, but we are talking about theatres investing a ton of capitol to do it. Capitol many of them simply do not have. And even if they do they may not have the space to do it properly.
You have AMC and Regal dominating as exhibitors, and you have a few smaller chains pushing towards offering premium theatres. I doubt those smaller chains can ever dominate the way AMC and Regal do, but they are catching the studio’s eye because they do draw well, just not as well as the mega-plexes attached to malls that cater to tweens with entire afternoons to spend shoveling junk food in their gullets.
If theatres in the US did go out of business, would studios be making enough in international revenue and DVD sales/rentals to make up for it?
Up until a decade or so ago studios were fairly dependent on US distribution to be the bulk of their revenue and marketing for their films. Its only in recent years that International sales have exploded to the point that they are regularly exceeding US sales. So its not unlikely that US studios will cater more and more to the whims of International audiences. I doubt studios will ever turn a blind eye to US exhibtors, but that’s simply because they would see it as lost profit, not because they are dependent on it.
A friend of mine in Britain has a membership card for his local cinema; he pays around 20 pounds a month and can go see any film they show for no extra charge.
There is a whole list of reasons why it could be done this way, and the studios could still be getting their cut. Is the theatre first-run? Is it mainstream? Is it a for-profit business? Do they track ticket sales tied to membership? How are sales reported? Are they reported?
In general though US studios have far more power in the US simply because that is where they draw best, and mainstream theatres there are far more dependent on them for success.
. Do the studios subsidize “premium” theatre experiences like Arclight’s additional ushers and reserved seating system?
Nope. As a general rule Studios don’t subsidize. They sure do take though.
If not, then why should the studios get a percentage of the upcharge those theatres charge?
Because they tie it to the ticket sale and studios take a flat percentage, no matter what the ticket price is. Its works similar to the 3D surcharge. That’s something the theatre provides, yet the theatre doesn’t get any of that money either.
Granted there are ways around it, but studios aren’t stupid and they tend to push back if they think they aren’t getting their “fare share” of the ticket price by refusing to provide content to theatres, if not black-balling them entirely.
“fare share” A typo or a magnificent play on words? Awesome.
I’ve lobbied a couple of times for a membership card that would get me into movies. The problem is that how does the distributor get their cut of the money coming in. Pretty much every movie I do that is not at the festival is a flat rate versus a certain door percentage. The rate is low enough that we can afford to do movies every so often and if we ever sell out the distributor would get more money. If we had a pass that allowed people in the studio wouldn’t get any of that money.
Matt, I don’t know all the details about my British friend’s theatre, but I know it shows mainstream, first-run movies, and is a chain. David might know what it is, though my friend is in Wales (Cardiff), and I’m not sure if the chain is nationwide or not.
The only similar program I’ve seen in the US is Cinefamily, which does the monthly membership thing ($23-30, depending on length of membership commitment, for access to every screening), but it’s a non-profit rep cinema, so it’s not a comparable case, though I know it does work for them quite well. I’m not sure where the revenue goes – the way the programmers talk, it sounds like they just rent the prints and pay the shipping (which is often more than renting the prints, especially if they fly in prints from overseas), and that’s it, no backend percentages deal, but I don’t know.
On the premium upcharges, that’s utterly unfair. They should take percentages based on the standard ticket price in that area, so $12 in LA, and anything above that the theatre charges (and customers are willing to pay, the market will even out on this) they should get to keep. That’s out-and-out greed on the studios part, getting a percentage for something they didn’t have any input on at all.
“fare share” A typo or a magnificent play on words? Awesome.
It started as a typo but I liked it, so I kept it.
@Jandy
I’m sure the card deal works well, and its one I like as well and wish some of our repatory theatres around here would adopt. Trylon uses a punch card system, but man it would be awesome if they did the membership fee system.
Even backend percentages are still fairly low with second run houses. Which means the theatres can typically make a little bit of profit if they get a good crowd.
I’d be interested in knowing more about that theatre in the UK. I don’t know the international side anywhere near as well as North America, so it would be interesting to hear how it works over there. I have my assumptions that the theatre probably pays a set fee to US studios, but I’m also guessing they don’t do a ton of US studio business (or ever did), meaning the studios don’t really pay much attention to them. But I certainly could be wrong.
That’s out-and-out greed on the studios part, getting a percentage for something they didn’t have any input on at all.
I’d agree, but studios feel that without their product the theatre wouldn’t get anything at all, and they have no problem threatening to pull their product, and do pull it far more frequently than people realize.
Quite honestly, I don’t care much for the “Ultimate theater experience.” I go where it’s cheapest and where/when there is the least amount of people. Matt makes fun of me for going to the rundown Mann theater up the road because it’s kind of a shithole. He has a conflict of interest, so I get it. But lots of reasons I go there:
- A ticket at 7pm is like 6 or 7 dollars; less during the day.
- Nobody is ever there. Pirates 4 on opening weekend and there were about 40 people in the theater. Great! NEVER worried about sell-out or sitting shoulder to shoulder with someone or someone in front of me.
- Harder and harder to find non-3D these days and this theater has no choice but to play 2D.
- This is a nostalgic thing, but when I walk in there, it still feels like the theaters I remember. It smells like a theater.
- Proximity to my house. On the bus line.
Frankly I’m amazed they’re able to stay in business (probably not for much longer). But for now, this is where I usually go for mainstream cinema. It’s a bit rundown and there might be a small hole in the screen or whatever, but on the whole it isn’t really a lesser experience. The movie is still going to be pretty much the same (or better since it’s not in 3D) and there are less people to annoy me. Frankly, I’m not looking for “more.” I actually want less. Give me the movie for as little as possible. As long as I can see it and hear it, I’m happy.
And P.S. – when I get a free pass or whatever into a movie, I always make a point of buying some popcorn or a bottle of water or whatever to chip in.
I just asked my friend to either give me more details (based on your questions), or comment here with more info about his theatre. I’ll let you know what he says.
I worked as a projectionist at a local cinema chain back when I was in college. A lot of what you’re saying is pretty much what I was told by the manager, Gamble. Our theater cut some of the costs by only hiring high school age employees for concessions, since the theater never had to pay them more than minimum wage (I’m foggy if that’s their reasoning, but that’s my guess based on how the place overall was run). What that also meant is that they pretty much didn’t give two hoots about anyone’s concerns and it was often up to me (shift leader/projectionist) and the Assistant Manager to deal with any problems the customers had about the theater-going experience. The view you painted is bleak, but it’s not unfamiliar to me. I wish there were more I could do outside of buying the concessions. =/
Andrew, I go for the $6 matinees that AMC has around here a lot, too, for stuff I don’t care about as much. But here, at least, there seems to be a direct correlation between how “premium” the theatre is and how respectful the audience is, aside from the theatrical trappings. Now I don’t know if that’s because at Arclight, there are ushers making sure people stay in line, or if it’s because people willing to pay for Arclight are also your top-class moviegoing citizens, but 99% of the time when I go to the AMC, there are texters, talkers, munchers, seat-kickers, and the whole bit, compared to about 2% of the time at Arclight. That’s worth the $4 for me when it’s something I’m really excited about seeing.
Although sad to say, the worst is the audiences at the Laemmle chain, which shows indie and arthouse films. You’d think that audiences who like good movies would know how to behave, but there is no correlation there. Those audiences are loud, obnoxious, and inconsiderate.
Jandy – While I think there is some correlation between which theater you go to and “quality” of patrons, I think it has more to do simply with the number of people at the theater. Hence, the less people, the less problems. A simple matter of percentages.
Matt Gamble – A “shithole” is a bit of a stretch, at least from the customer viewpoint. I think it’s fine. The seats are comfortable enough and the presentation isn’t “horrible.” It’s just not top-notch digital. Unless you’re like one of those people who claim to be able to tell the difference between 160 bit rate and 192 bit rate on their digital mp3′s, I don’t notice any more of a difference in presentation than any of the indie theaters in town. And again, I really only go to this theater for all the big-budgety stuff which typically I don’t care that much about anyway (Pirates, A-Team, Expendables, etc.).
Kurt – I’ll take 100 teenagers or parents and kids over 100 50+ crowd every single time.
Give me the movie for as little as possible.
This is a pretty common theme among most customers. They want the movie dirt cheap, and that is all they care about. Quality of presentation be damned.
And the Mann 6 is a shithole. The Mann’s are nice enough guys, but they build cheap theatres, their presentation is horrible and they treat their staff like crap.
And P.S. – when I get a free pass or whatever into a movie, I always make a point of buying some popcorn or a bottle of water or whatever to chip in.
You also aren’t an asshole like some members of the Cinecast.
Although sad to say, the worst is the audiences at the Laemmle chain, which shows indie and arthouse films. You’d think that audiences who like good movies would know how to behave, but there is no correlation there. Those audiences are loud, obnoxious, and inconsiderate.
Same happens here in the Cities. On the whole I think the audience at my theatre are pretty damn good, and they are as well at second run theatres like Riverview, Trylon and The Heights. The AMC and Regals’s are populated with idiot kids or asshole thugs, and the arthouse theatres are typically overrun with snooty assholes who believe they are entitled to everything because they’re watching Tree of Life on opening weekend.
Seriously, arthouse crowds are the fucking worst.
“You also aren’t an asshole like some members of the Cinecast.” — Touché Matt, we smell our own.
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For some reason there is a different correlation between arthouse crowd and festival crowd. I think you are not so much as talking about the ‘arthouse crowd’ but the Over 50 crowd being as obnoxious at teenagers. I’ve had more run-ins with 50+ folks thinking it is their living room, than teenagers goofing off. And the older crowd are FAR more miffed if you call them on their rude behavior, but they generally settle down.
Kurt, I think you are correct. I generally don’t have a problem with the crowd for arthouse movies at Arclight (they play a solid mix of Hollywood blockbuster-type and prestige arthouse films, like Tree of Life) or the one-screen Landmark where they play stuff like Enter the Void, but the Over 50 crowd at Laemmle are as bad or worse than teenagers. At least texting is generally quiet. Pointing everything that’s happening on screen out loud is not.
What we need to do is get the 50+ crowd and the teenagers to all go to the same theater. That way, the kids can text all they want and the older folk can narrate so they don’t miss anything onscreen.
I must admit that I rarely run into issues at the cinema, due to my ’10pm on a Sunday Night’ rule for most of my multiplex theatre going.
That being said, my Saturday Afternoon Double bill of X-men:FC(at AMC) followed by Midnight in Paris (Varsity-Cineplex) both had good crowds, both theatres at near-capacity and no A-holes. Good times.
(oh, there was a small exception is at the Midnight at Paris screening: One mom brought her 5 or 6 year old son to the film who got really fidgety just before the film ended, she had to bail with only 10 minutes left of the film after he cried out once or twice….)
I think you are not so much as talking about the ‘arthouse crowd’ but the Over 50 crowd being as obnoxious at teenagers.
I agree that the Over 50 crowd is horrible and probably the worst demo, but the Too Cool for School 20-30 crowd is ridiculously grating in its own right. The old farts will throw a fit then sit down and shut up, but the brats just keep going and going because they think it makes them cool.
A “shithole” is a bit of a stretch, at least from the customer viewpoint.
I think passable might apply to most customer’s viewpoint, but trust me when I say its a shit hole. Out of date projectors and sound systems even when they were installed thirty years ago, and the up keep of the theatre is awful. Mainly because the Mann’s are notorius at not spending a dime on maintenance and repairs unless its required by law, and even then they only do the bare minimum.
They’ve also had a wage freeze on their hourly employees for over 6 years, which is a truly dickish move.
That being said the Mann Theatre in Hopkins is actually a damn solid second-run theatre. How they pull it off in that company, I have no idea but kudos to them.
The Mann theatre in Hollywood is very nice, but it’s attached to Grauman’s Chinese, so maybe they try a little harder to make it nice for the touristy-types. I’ve only been there for festivals, so I can’t speak to the standard audiences, but the theatre seating/screen/sound is as good as any in town. Well, I will caveat that the smaller screens have some basically unusable seats near the front and sides because they’re so close to the screen, but the two main screens are as good as Arclight. I assume that’s the same Mann chain you have in Minnesota.
The Mann theatre in Hollywood is very nice, but it’s attached to Grauman’s Chinese, so maybe they try a little harder to make it nice for the touristy-types.
It’s a different brother/chain that owns the Mann’s Theatres in Cali. He went West years ago and seems to consistently put more money into his theatres than his relatives in Minnesota.
This may be an odd place to say this, but I found this discussion very interesting. I don’t know much about the movie business, so thanks to all for the education.
Agreed, Ayanna, this has been a really great and informative thread. I certainly learned a lot.
Because Gamble is a very educated person in the business (it is his business), here is more of our rambling on the quirks and oddities of theatrical distributions business model — http://www.rowthree.com/2009/01/20/cinecast-episode-109-the-business-of-selling-candy/ (I’m hoping this is the right episode, correct me if I’m wrong)
I didn’t read the whole thread but I noticed some talk of British theatres having a monthly fee – that’s Cineworld, which is a big chain over here. They offer standard tickets too though. A friend of mine gets the monthly subscription and swears by it – he gets in a hell of a lot of films through it. Unfortunately there isn’t one near me – it’s a great idea for people who want to go regularly but can’t afford the £9 it costs each visit. I only get to go on Wednesdays these days when it’s buy-one-get-one-free. Unfortunately these days are when the cinema is filled with knobs like the one that started this whole discussion!
By the way I’m off to the States tomorrow – New York for a couple of days then Michigan for a week or so, so I’m going to try and experience some US cinema-going. It’s been a while!
AMC piloted this concept of ‘all-you-can-eat-pass’ several years ago (in the States only), and I wish they would have adopted it (in Canada too!). But they didn’t.
@David – Here is a cool link that talks about few cool Theatres in New York and other cities.
Since that theatre only covers the USA, here is Toronto:
http://twitchfilm.com/featured/2010/07/cinema-houses-in-toronto.php
And R3′s “Local Theatre Showcase” series: http://www.rowthree.com/category/local-theater-showcase/
Thanks guys. It’ll be tough to talk Anna into a cinema trip on our holidays, but maybe one at least. I want to catch Super 8 – it’s not out in the UK till August. Plus Tree of Life still doesn’t have a UK release date so I’ll try to find a screening of that if I can.
I spoke too soon – Tree of Life finally does have a release date – July 8th! Thank God.
Note that Cineplex’s SilverCity theatres have now a VIP section. There’s one on Oakville that opened a few years ago and I go there often, despite the fact that I literally drive by the SilverCity Mississauga theatre to get there. They charge more (Yikes! It’s now $18.95, it used to be about $3 more than regular price) however, you get assigned seating and since they serve alcohol it’s 19+ so no teenagers. The seats are not quite lazyboy chairs, but a lot better than your average seat, with a table between every 2 chairs for any food or anything else. Plus before the movie you can order food from your seat and have it brought to you.
Anyways, the lack of teenagers and increase ticket price seems to be enough to keep out the people who would talk or text during a movie. I wish there were more of these theatres, especially since the one in Oakville seems to be very successful, with often sold out shows. There seems to be one in London, Ontario and of course Varsity’s VIP theatre, but no others. However, I imagine that more has to do with the fact that Cineplex isn’t rolling out new theatres like they were just a decade or so ago.
Matthew: Can you hear the projector like at the Varsity VIP, the annoying whir of the film going thru the projector is a dealbreaker for me. I actively avoid the Varsity VIP.
I’m very much hoping they fixed (or don’t have) this issue in Oakville. I’ve not been there since it opened.
the annoying whir of the film going
This seems totally odd coming from you.
You have to be in one of those screenrooms to appreciate how loud the projector actually is, plus they keep the volume low for some reason, and you are always hyper aware of the few other patrons and the sOund of anyone opening and closin the main doors. John Allison can back me up on this.
My problem with the Varsity wasn’t the projector it was the audience the one time I went. It was as if the extra cost gave everyone the right to treat it like their living room. Everyone talking and made comment about the movie. It was the most annoying screening I’ve ever been at.
That totally outweighed any projection noise so much that I can’t even remember if there was any projection noise.
Oh and the movie that was ruined was Lust, Caution. People giggled about the sex. They made comments about how bad the actors in the play scene were. I don’t want to knock them but the whole point was that they were bad actors in the play not that the movie itself had bad actors.
You don’t want to get me going on it. I still haven’t rewatched the movie even though I want to just because it will bring up bad memories.
Kurt, I have never heard the projector at Silvercity Oakville. I think most if not all the VIP screens are digital screens. I think all screens also are capable of 3D, which is unfortunate, as someone who dislikes the 3D format. Because if a movie is in 3D, they will only be showing it in 3D on the VIP screens and I have to go elsewhere if I want to see it in 2D.
Interesting to hear you say that about the Varsity, John, since my experience is the exact opposite in Oakville. I wonder if that says something about the downtown vs suburb audience or if it was the particular movie versus the more mainstream movies I’ve seen so far in Oakville. I more often go to the VIP theatre on opening night or opening weekend of a movie to avoid line ups, since it’s assigned seating. I often show up just as the movie is about to start, often trying to time it to have missed some or the trailers or at least the ads in front of the movie. But yeah, the audience there have generally been the best, quite, respectful and no texting or using their cell phones in any way.
The oakville one has a 19 and older audience policy in effect, I am not sure if the Toronto Varsity VIP has the same policy…
Just saw the announcement of a new service called Moviepass (blog post here).
Thoughts on this, Matt (Gamble), or others? Sounds even more revolutionary than an all-you-can-eat membership to a theatre like Cineworld has in the UK, if it works at multiple theatres (possibly multiple chains)? How will this fly with studios and theatres, Matt? They’ve already got 21 theatres in the Bay Area, including some AMCs and some others which may be independents – not sure by the names.
Really interested to hear how or if this is viable. It would be well worth my $50.
Wheeee: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/07/30/3258287/disagreement-over-texting-at-movie.html?storylink=addthis#.TjUYsErQawg.facebook