In Carl Matheson‘s early aughties piece on the humour of TVs The Simpsons, he talks about something he calls hyper-irony: “The flavor of humor offered by today’s comedies is colder, based less on a shared sense of humanity than on a sense of world-weary cleverer-than-thou-ness.” Of course this is not designed to be perjurious, but rather complimentary, insofar as any fan of The Coen brothers reacts to the humour of their equally cleverer-than-thou takes on both genre and cinema. Matthew Vaughn’s new superhero adventure certainly plays in this sandbox and it does it very well. It walks the line of ‘what if’ while soft-shoeing around comic nerd fantasy and realism. Knowing full well that the bulk of comic-book entry points are from the adolescent pure fantasy point of view (Iron Man‘s wise-ass chauvinist inventor stud billionaire anyone?), that is the tone that wins out in the end, but damn if it still wants you to believe that things are set it in real world. I think it is this sort of high-wire act that got The Dark Knight such critical and audience love, although it was done without any sort of ironic distance by Christopher Nolan and company. Kick-Ass seems to specialize in this sort of tone and succeeds (not in making high-art) where the makers behind the film version of Millar’s Wanted completely failed to find the right proportions of grounded-ness and ironic fantasia. Vaughn and Goldman have certainly done the author a service.
Which brings us to the ultimate expression of the title, no, not Dave Lizewski who dons a web-purchased wet-suit and becomes “Kick-Ass”, but rather a 12 year old girl who chops off limbs, knows her John Woo and is not afraid to use the “C” word and does indeed kick-ass. The screen time that is capably commanded by young Chloe Moretz is the as much influenced by Japanese Manga as it is the typical half-pint side kick (Robin to Nicholas Cage’s Adam West inspired Big Daddy). When a side character exclaims “I think I love her, dude” it is a sly piece of commentary on how the audience (the usual audience, not the finger-wagging moralists out there that have little place bothering with something as trifling as Kick-Ass) is likely to react. That Big Daddy and Hit Girl are thoroughly competent (awesome may be the more appropriate word) in a wish fulfillment sort of way, again echoes of the recent incarnation of the caped crusader, while Dave Lizewski and Chris D’Amico are merely poseurs with something to prove (by becoming Kick-Ass and Red Mist) underscores the balance. The New York City setting seriously attempts to exist in the real world (heck, it is rare to see comic books actually exist in a movie about comic-book heroes) with only the barest whiff of American Pie or Peter Parker goofery. This of course raises the sense of black humour when we see Big Daddy filling his empty vessel of a daughter to be a killing machine who happens to like ice-cream sundaes at the local bowling alley. By the time the film jet boosts (or is that rocket launches?) into its climatic show down between the comic (but winningly underplayed) gangsters the horror and violence and kitsch and fantasy are all blended into a pleasant swirly cocktail. Hit Girl and Big Daddy are as close to serial killers as to heroes and it is played for shits and giggles.
There has been a recent spate of non-super-hero movies, notably Michael Rappaport in SpecialRx, Woody Harrelson in Defendor and Chilean martial artist Marko Zaror in Mirage Man, but really the closest analogue to Kick-Ass is actually the Shane Black penned Last Action Hero. It is just that the balance and tone and hyper-ironic stance are more suited to the comic book material than nudge-nudge wink-wink Schwartzenegger action beats. Perhaps even the world was not ready for Last Action Hero (it is underrated and unfairly maligned in my opinion) and there needed to be a the ridiculous number of comic-book fantasies (and Coen Brothers and Wes Anderson films) to get to this point. And the blending of take-me-serious and ah-shucks-just-masturbate the “R” rating does not hurt. Not only do little girls swear and shoot the bad guys to bits. But teen-agers have fun and awkward sex. The horror! That walking the fine edge of parody and ‘what-if’ is done with such expertise and self awareness ultimately makes Kick-Ass worthy of 2 hours of your time and a tip of the hat to meta-cinema-tomfoolery.
For a more straightforward (and less wankery laden take on Kick-Ass, see David Brook’s Kick-Ass Review)
see I am kind of done with cleverer-than-thou-ness, I prefer not to hear the writer's voice in the film, my ideal comedy is one where the laughter is born from the characters not imposed situations/set-pieces. I will likely see this but I highly doubt it will be my thing.
Will go to Girl with the Tattoo first.
I like the Last Action Hero comparison – comes a little out of left field but I think you've got a point. I guess it's a good excuse to see it again.
I thought it was an uneven film. But it deliver many comedic moments. I do not think that the film is as smart as it think it is. Besides the ridiculous, over the top action, Kick-ass remains an average comic book film. Basically, it is a funnier Spider-man mix with Ninja Assassin. Still better than most blockbusters.
Basically, it is a funnier Spider-man mix with Ninja Assassin.
You didn't really get the movie, did you?
Matt Gamble, the film is trying to be satire of the medium, but it fails to do so. Instead of being a satire piece, it ends up being Spider-man with Kill Bill style violence. Take the violence away, Kick-Ass is Spider-man. That is why Kill Bill is a better film than Kill-Bill since it works without the violence. Where is the satire, Matt Gumble? The biggest satire that I saw was Nicholas Cage impersonation which was not that great. Do not get me wrong, I enjoyed the film, but I do not thing that it is a smart as people make it out to be. There is a difference between being formulaic and being satire. In addition, just because a work is a satire it does follow that something is good. Satire does not necessarily correlate with smartness and goodness. Kick-ass never reach the smartness of Robocop and Starship Troopers; instead, it follows and champions the comic book formula too closely.
What ends up being the difference between Ninja Assassin and Kick-ass(besides Ninja Assassin being horrible)? It is simply having an 11 year old doing the insane violence?
How can Kick-ass be a smart satire piece when the majority of its audience is enjoying the parts the film is suppose to ridicule. I am not into American comic books, but I have read enough to know that Mark Millar is not smart writer. He is simply an adolescent, shock writer.
I hate fanboys, hipsters, such as Matt Gumble, that simply reject your argument by stating "you did not get it."
There are things I get that I do not like. For instance, I understand why there many teens that listen to emo music. It does not follow that I should enjoy emo music.
I don't agree with Antho's reason. He has no way of gauging what a majority of the audience thinks and I don't think that's relevant either way. But I agree with his larger point. It's not really satire. Kick Ass comes not to ridicule but to celebrate the super hero genre.
I really enjoyed the film overall, although I think the end was about 40% too upbeat.
And "American comic books", what kind of douche bag comment is that?
And congrats Kurt! You managed not to embarrass too badly while writing about comic books. Good wrk.
@"I hate fanboys, hipsters, such as Matt Gumble, that simply reject your argument by stating “you did not get it.”"
Yeah, but in Gamble's defense you seem pretty dense.
I still can't get over how fucking manically brilliant Nic Cage is in this movie. He's like Adam West channeling Klaus Kinski, he's so on point.
@Rusty, Cage is also awesome because the filmmakers wisely keep the audience begging for more.
"Yeah, but in Gamble’s defense you seem pretty dense."
People like Matt Gumble are a reason why I have not explore American comic books, since they tend to be elitist. Going to a comic book store is a very hunting experience. It is a primarily reason why I only read manga. Anyways, I do not hate Matt Gumble; in fact, I love his appearances in Cinecast and Movie Club podcast. But on many occasions, he comes out as being a douche$@^$@#.
@Antho, "Matt Gamble, the film is trying to be satire of the medium, but it fails to do so. "
Please read my entire post above again!
Kick-Ass is attempting to be a parody, satire, and exemplary example of the genre (See also Edgar Wrights two films, most of the Coen Brothers work, The Royal Tenenbaums, Fight Club, etc. etc.) The high-wire act (here quite successful) is pointing out the silliness of the genre while simultaneously taking it serious. I think Vaughn and Company knocked things out of the park with this one. They are almost always on target and every 'joke' or reference seems to have a couple meanings.
Personally, I was not a fan of Cage's performance. It seem to be too SNL. His scenes with his daughter were brutal to watch. However, I did not like the part towards end where you have no idea what the heck he is saying. I was surprise with Mark Strong's performance since I did not like in Sherlock Holmes.
@RustyJames, have you seen Port of Call New Orleans (The Herzog Bad Lieutenant) yet? Cage is also very much "ON" in that movie. He's having a good comeback after all those Knowings and Nexts and other crap he's been drawing paychecks form. I am sure he'll hit a snag with The Sorcerer's Apprentice or Season of the Witch, but if he can keep his high output and be batting around 2/5, that is pretty darn good.
Kurt,
I was quoting "I love it… I just love it" for months, practicing the Nic Cage gring. But I don't think that's nearly as good a performance.
Season of the Witch looks great!
Kurt, for me the film parody the wrong parts of the genre. The high school setting mirror most things you see in comic books and films. It felt like I was watching Spider-man.
@Cage is also awesome because the filmmakers wisely keep the audience begging for more.
..eee… I'm gonna split hairs and disagree with you here. Cage has tons of screen time here. We want more because he's awesome. Chiiiild.
it's more like "Chahhld"
Is it me, or is Nicholas Cage the new Christopher Walken?
@ People like Matt Gumble are a reason why I have not explore American comic books, since they tend to be elitist.
guy, you're really managing to push my buttons here.
What I am trying to say is that I would like a more subtle parody, satire. The in your face parody, ends up becoming formulaic. It is why I do not like Weird Al Yankovic' cover songs while I do like The Clash's Rock the Casbah.
And I'm just gonna put this out there; Millar is Scottish. He lives and works in Scottland. And if you read Scottish comics you'd know that he's expressed some pretty boldly anti-American views in his work, most notably The Authority.
I know that he is Scottish, but he is still rubbish. American and UK comic book follow similar format. Nowadays, American and UK comic books cater to a very niche audience. I have tried many time to get into American comic books, but it ends up in frustrations. For example, last year I took a class relating to Batman to tried to get into comics. It just end up being to o confusing, especially for superhero comic books. I try to get help from comic book reader, but it has not work out. In my experience, most avid American comic book readers tend to be in their 40's. It is like manga where all you have to do is start with vol. 1 tankobon.
On the bright sight, it is good to see bloody films, such as Repo Man and Kick-Ass hit being release wide in America. However, I still cannot understand how Kick-Ass and Repo Man's violence gets the same rating as film that she brief nudity. Kurt, how is the rating system in Canada?
hold on. Just admit you didn't know he was Scottish. It's not a big deal. It doesn't invalidate your larger point, we all make mistakes, I'm not going to berate you for it.
A stubborn, pathological inability to admit fault on the other hand does invalidate your larger points.
You refered to his work as American in origin on two seperate occasions! But we're supposed to believe that you were just generalizing about American and UK comics because of the "similarities in format"?
That's nonsensical bullshit, you're out of your mind if you think I'm going to entertain this.
Just admit you didn't know he was Scottish and this conversation can move on.
@ On the bright sight, it is good to see bloody films, such as Repo Man and Kick-Ass hit being release wide in America.
yup, we're catching up. You're so proud of us. We're also making great strides in condescending douche bag technology.
I knew he was Scottish, since I have seen him being interview in before. He has a trainspotting-esque accent. I do not even know how the heck the conversation venture in comics. I apologize for sounding appearing like a troll and douche. By the way Rusty, I am American.
I guess I lost my control with Matt Gumble's arrogant remark. Hey Rusty, I been hearing lots of great things about Scott Pilgrim, is it work getting?
Love Scott Pilgrim!
But on many occasions, he comes out as being a douche$@^$@#.
Thank you; I've worked hard to become so.
Oops. Seems I missed the conversation. Forgot there were two threads on this movie. I'm not really surprised people really liked Kick-Ass. It is sort of the super hero equivalent of Zombieland – which I also found to be excruciatingly unfunny and fairly obvious. I guess I'm just not on board with these "lovingly poke fun at our favorite pop culture reference" type of movies. They are just NOT funny. I seriously was straight faced through 95% of this movie.
Kick-Ass sort of earns its money with the action towards the end, but the rest was so adolescent and obvious, all I could do was sit there, check my watch and wish Nicolas Cage was on-screen more.
Not to mention these ideas have been explored three times before. Probably done the best with Michael Rappaport in "Special", but also in "Defendor" and "MirageMan."
I should've spent my two hours at the local film fest rather than this. But as I said in the other thread, everyone hyping about this movie and my expectations played into my head… and was let down.
Oh yes, and as usual all of the clips and red band trailers released help to ruin the surprise and excitement of the movie. I seriously am still baffled why people want to see so much of a movie before they actually see it. They were difficult to avoid in this case.
The Nic Cage shooting his daughter bit would have been SO much more fun had I not already seen it before.
@ I seriously am still baffled why people want to see so much of a movie before they actually see it.
I agree. These show-the-whole-movie ad campaigns are becoming more and more agressive.
I fortunately only saw the one HIT-Girl red-band, otherwise, nothing ruined for me. Stop seeking out this stuff if you don't want to spoil the film. If the marketing material says "Check out this clip of … " then, well, don't.
But I've said this many times, a great movie doesn't matter whether it is spoiled or not in the trailers or previews. As a great movie you often watch multiple times (the second, third, fourth time you of course know the plot). A great movie goes beyond the plot, and most of the pleasures of something like Kick-Ass do not have to do with the plot at all.
yeah, but Kurt I know what Andrew means. These marketing campaigns are extremely aggressive. "If you don't want to know then don't watch" becomes "it's not a spoiler because it's part of the official marketing"
And I agree that true greatness is a matter of longevity but you only get one first viewing and I hate these marketing campaigns that insist I must know every beat of the story before going into the theatre.
I am with Andrew on this film, but I still had a blast. Could of been better if it shed its Weird Al Jankovic' structure in favor of a smarter, subtle parody, such as The Clash's Rock the Casbah. Nevertheless, the film did contain enjoyable comedic moments; in fact, it ended up being more funny than the Hangover and Hot Tube Time Machine.
Kick-Ass never reaches the level where it can trick the audience on its hidden, parody agenda. For example, upon seeing Starship Strooper, many of my friends enjoy the fascist, cliche parts that film ridicule. Another example, radio segment of The War of the Worlds trick the audience into believing that it was a real Alien Invasion.
It's not about "TRICKING" the audience, its about giving a good movie that people who are aware of the conventions and cliches will actually find funny.
There is Starship Troopers and there is Kick-Ass and they are both pretty good at what they do. And for the record, Verhoeven and his screenwriter, Ed Nuemeier never intended to 'trick' their audience, they were frankly quite surprised when the audience was in fact tricked, and say as much in the wonderfully informative SST commentary. Highly Recommended.
"…its about giving a good movie that people who are aware of the conventions and cliches will actually find funny."
Or NOT find funny as the case may be.
Although I don't agree with Andrew on comic book movies in general, I agree with him on Kick Ass. Pretty boring stuff. Especially if you're not willing to go the extra mile by grafting on some sort of meta/satirical element that is pretty thin to begin with. Having said that, I think even Transformers 2 would be good if you approached it as the ultimate commentary on blockbuster films.
For me, Kick Ass was confused, unfunny, visually boring and simply missed the mark. I'd take Watchmen over this any day.
Cannot wait for Cinecast's battle between Andrew vs Matt Gamble and Kurt H. It is going to be epic.
Maybe Jay Cheel could be a special guest.
I agree with Jay Cheel. If you have never seen a Michael Bay' film before and stumble upon Armageddon, would not you view the film in the same manner as Kick-Ass. It can be viewed as being parodying the loud, mindless, action-oriented blockbusters from the 1990's-2000's. With the cliche's, terrible scene scenarios, and terrible acting are all done to show how shallow and absurd many blockbuster are.
You know, a lot of people did talk about Transformers 2 in the context of surreal commentary on that type of movie.
I think the difference between Michael Vaughn and Michael Bay is that it is wholly a part of the story here, the satire (well more parody) followed by the ultimate wish fulfillment which then pushes things into satire. And there is more fun and audacity in Hit Girl both as a melding of a Japanese icon (the kick-ass preteen uniformed girl) and Chloe Moretz sweet/deadly performance in any of her scenes compared to Michael Bay's overwrought use of filters and macho testosterone. I seem to recall Edgar Wright using Bays style for the 'fingerprinting and police bureaucracy' scenes in Hot Fuzz to amusing effect, making it more effective satire than anything you could graft on to Bay's movies.
(Oh, and the Andrew vs. Matt and Kurt will not be recorded until Wednesday night, so keep hash things out here until that time).
copying over some comments made at Film Junk to Jay Cheel, which are relevent here in that they somewhat extend my hyper-irony read (above extended thoughts):
Jay, you are so off base on this one. Rather than type at length why you are more or less wrong in terms of TF2 comparison, or whether or not the satire is ‘bad.’ I’m sure we will get into this at length with Andrew come this Wednesdays R3 Podcast (which will hopefully be up Thursday morning).
But i will leave on this, a fairly clever joke on how people consume comic books and action films, that is addressed with a fair bit of wit with Kick-Ass. When it comes to these two mediums, most particularly comic books, the fan base and many casual consumers, is that they want the line of suspension of disbelief to edge closer and closer to reality (see Batman Begins and The Dark Knight) but at the same time, they want to complete fantasy (ass is kicked so to speak, and stylishly). IN short, people want the fantasy. Christopher Nolan commented on this very fact in his movie The Prestige. Everyone goes into a magic trick WANTING to be tricked, not wanting the explanation. The explanation is boring, it is the trick (ie. in comic books, the pure wish fulfillment, the wank-off which is actually addressed visually in the film) that the medium has always been most successful, and in this case, the satire is spot on. Precisely becuase it attempts to have its cake and eat it too. At all points within Kick-Ass, only lip service is paid to ‘being real’ becuase deep down, the bulk of comic-book fans read comics for the ‘fantasy’ not the reality. The excellence of Kick-Ass is that it constantly plays both coy and broad with were the suspension of disbelief is.
And in that way it is like Starship Troopers plays with the ‘fascism/melrose-place’ satire on how Americans feel about war and conducting war.
War indeed makes fascists of us all. And comics allow for a collective wack-off, and Millar seems to get this intrinsically, and (smug or not) also rubs a bit of it in our face.
The problem for me isn't that I don't get the joke or see the irony here. I do. It just isn't interesting or funny or anything we haven't seen before. The teenage kids being snarky with sex jokes isn't particularly funny, the action sequences (aside from some bits at the end) are nothing new and therefore pretty boring, the antagonists are one dimensional as hell and kids living out a fantasy has been done a million times already.
If you want to say that all of this is some sort of commentary/satire on comic book super heroes, fine. But that doesn't make it fun or interesting. Starship Troopers is so much further over the top and in your face with satire and what-ifs that by default it becomes awesome. Kick-Ass says nothing new by essentially just lovingly poking fun at its inspiration; e.g Spiderman, Batman, Wolverine, etc. If you find that entertaining, hats off to you. If you say wow, I've seen this before in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, Can't Buy Me Love, Superbad and Zombieland and the composition of pretty much every other action movie out there, then that would be more accurate.
Seriously, I'm glad you guys had fun with it. For me, this is a movie that is already escaping my memory and probably won't be talked about three months from now and will not do well on DVD.
Copied from Film Junk:
Kurt, my problems with Kick Ass do not end at its attempt at satire. You are more willing to do the work to fill in the gaps with this film, and that’s fine and dandy. I personally don’t think it’s worth the effort. What little uninspired commentary the film gives us to work with is, in my opinion, overshadowed by:
– A poor lead performance
– Stunt casting (McLovin’)
– A one trick/one note visual pun (Hit Girl)
– Middle of the road action (ironic or not. I’d take non-ironic GOOD action any day)
– The mishandling of a cool concept (real life superheroes)
– Ungraceful tonal shifts (don’t care if it’s on purpose)
– UNFUNNY
– No chance to empathize or live vicariously through anybody except on the most superficial of levels
– Uninspired visuals
– Uninspired musical choices (outside of glory glory hallelujah)
– Uninspired dialogue
– Uninspired visuals
The fact that Kick Ass is a satire is not enough to make up for the fact that it was for the most part, boring. I don’t get off on this sort of cleverness. (see Funny Games) It’s just not enough for me.
“And in that way it is like Starship Troopers plays with the ‘fascism/melrose-place’ satire on how Americans feel about war and conducting war.”
Yes, they both have satirical elements. The difference is Starship Troopers is simply a better film.
This idea of commenting on the collective wack-off of comic book fans does absolutely nothing for me. Seems like shooting fish in a barrel in the most obvious of ways.
Before the weekend, who would have thought that Kick-Ass would end up been the next Ocean 12.
having not seen the film but only going on the arguments for or against, I suspect I will be in the Cheel camp when the time comes.
At best I see it being Wanted, but will see.
Rot, except for the action and the visuals, Kick-Ass is a superior to Wanted.
I found Wanted to fail on its 'wish fulfilment, telling an actual story' balance, and ended up on the 'Michael Bay' end of the spectrum. I still to this day cannot properly articulate why I like Bekmambetov's 'WATCH' films (which also suffer serious 'storytelling issues') and really really dislike WANTED. But I think Vaughn and co. better captured Millar's pissing on slash celebrating the medium in tone than Bekmambetov.
And I thought Kick-Ass (personally) was a pretty likeable protagonist. Certainly more likable than James McAvoy's in Wanted.
But I do see a lot of "FUCK YOU" to comic books, and exposing of the paradox of what fans think they want and what they really want, and that is enough for me. I thought the pilfering of other musical choices (28 Days Later soundtrack for instance) was both lazy and playing into the smack-down of the medium. Is kick-ass a mean spirited film? Yes, but it buries its smug meanness in a happy package. It's loving almost in the way of Edgar Wright…Almost…
Cheel and company – Just eat your fucking happy meals. (Yes, I'm kidding).
certainly found the visuals to be appealing enough (the jet-pack ride through new your in long shot is pretty sweet). I liked all the Hit Girl scenes, yes they were reminiscent of other things, but I never put Kick-Ass out there to re-invent the wheel, it is more along the likes of stroking (spoking?) the wheel.
For a comic book movie, this is enough for me. Am I damning with faint praise? Maybe. I'm not a fan of the genre in general, so perhaps the point of this movie appealed to my sensiblity.
I'd certainly take Kick-Ass over Ironman.
It's about a tie for me with Watchmen (of which it has some similarities, even if its humour/tone/execution is markedly different, but I guess they both come to the same 'deconstruction' end of the scale. I tend to like these exercises.
@ "This idea of commenting on the collective wack-off of comic book fans does absolutely nothing for me. Seems like shooting fish in a barrel in the most obvious of ways."
Yea, but to do it in a way that appeals to fans of the genre is pretty fucking magnificent in a prankster sort of way. Certainly the mark of good satire is that many people take it somewhat at face value (again, Starship Troopers, Robocop, Little Children, Happiness, Fight Club, etc. etc.) -> I'm not saying that Kick-Ass is as GREAT as those films but in the world of Comic Book Blockbusters, it is as close as we've got.
I think Watchmen could have been a better film in a lot of ways, but I've been warming to it for a while now, warts and all.
Kick-Ass is a tighter (if not quite as ambitious) bit of bubble-gum that went down well. I think it is smarter and a tough balancing act than people have been giving it credit for.
First off, I agree on Wanted. Lame. Haven't made it to the 'Watch' films yet though.
"I thought the pilfering of other musical choices (28 Days Later soundtrack for instance) was both lazy and playing into the smack-down of the medium."
Are we going to assume the lame Lost reference is a smack-down of films that make stupid pop culture references?
"Yea, but to do it in a way that appeals to fans of the genre is pretty fucking magnificent in a prankster sort of way."
I can't really comment on this because I think this is reasoning that you've pretty much created in your own mind Kurt. To assume that it's all a big prank is a pretty big leap to make and I'm not willing to take it. (your love of meta!) Even if I did, I think Daredevil or Elektra would probably work better as the ultimate comic book 'prank' films if you're so willing to make the assumption.
Seems to me that although Kick Ass admittedly contains satirical elements, it's nothing more than a 'see what you want to see' experience and says more about what you personally look for in a film more than what's actually there. Myself included.
"28 Days Later soundtrack for instance"
Oh yeah, totally forgot about that. Moratorium on that song please. Even for satire. Ugh!
I love the film but I agree, people see it as satire because they want to. If there were any doubt, just look at the ending, where the film reveals itself as an unabashed celebration of the genre.
Mark Millar is a super hero writer through and through. He always dabbles in politics and cynicism but the truth is he doesn't have a satirical bone in his body. He's visceral to his core.
Kurt, sometimes I feel like your insistence on viewing everything through the lens of irony leaves you myopic.
In fact, I would say that the biggest difference between Wanted and Kick Ass (the movies only) is that Wanted takes its "social commentary" way more seriously.
Really, Rusty? I think the gag of it wanting to play in the real world while reveling in its jet-pack conclusion is exactly the satirical joke here. And it's a pretty good one at that.
Come again? There is social commentary in Wanted? I totally missed that in the film.
Kurt, the way you feel about Wanted is the way many people feel about Kick-Ass. I like the film, but I saw minimal to no social commentary. In the end, it ends up being Spiderman with John Woo/Kill Bill moments.
I guess what I am trying to say: is that it is a shallow film to same extent as other superhero films such as Iron Man.
I suppose I found Ironman to be simply straightforward and obvious, and Kick-Ass to be offer a few more surprises and commentary on the genre. Ironman was boring to me, Kick-Ass (tonal shifts and all) was more interesting.
@ There is social commentary in Wanted? I totally missed that in the film.
Everytime the you were reminded of Fight Club, that was the movie trying to be thoughtful.
By the way, something that won me over in kickass was the characters. I think the film has a lot of heart
Oh, I never interpreted that as social commentary, I interpreted it as "lets just steal from fight club" – once you are at a copy of a copy, etc. well, there isn't much social commentary, merely aping. Wanted apes a lot more poorly than Kick-Ass, which at least has a few things to say about how people view comics.
@ “lets just steal from fight club” – once you are at a copy of a copy, etc. well, there isn’t much social commentary
Since I'm calling it failed social commentary that's kind of splitting hairs.
What exactly is the movie saying about how people view comic books.
@Rusty, "What exactly is the movie saying about how people view comic books."
Uh…Please read the above post
"once you are at a copy of a copy, etc. well, there isn’t much social commentary, merely aping."
a lot of the genre films you admire could fit under that, why I don't get a hard on for Coens and Tarantino the way some around here do.
I doubt that the Coen's are going for 'social commentary' with most of their films, I like the coen's, tarantino, etc. because they are gonig for cinema-commentary. Big Difference.
My comment above (the copy of the copy, etc.) was only referring to original ways to reflect society and norms, (a la the satire of fight-club)
A genre film is more about how the film works within the rules of the genre, how it inverts them, and how the plot and style and overall human bits and pieces splash out onto the screen (more a more succinct Ebert quote, "It's not what the film is about, but how it is about it") and by that test, Kick-Ass is pretty damn successful in my book.
I've said it before and I'll say it again – not much more or a better way to articulate it actually. Kick-Ass says things to you apparently. To me, it's just not very exciting, funny or interesting in any way.
If you think the teen sex jokes are funny, great. If you think watching the bad guys bumble about and get yelled a tby their snarky boss is amusing (actually, I liked the bazooka bit) or the way in which Christopher Minze-Plasse rises up out of the alley way in a cloud of steam in his red mist costume then hurting his leg as he jumps from a dumpster is amusing or is hilariously poking fun at comic books, then fine. I just didn't. But then again, I've seen Special and MirageMan where these things were already done (better).
Oh, and rewatching Wanted this morning on my iPod, I'm realizing that the Fight Club comparisons are not entirely warranted. The only similarity is the fact that a guy hates his job and then tells his boss to fuck off. Otherwise I'm not sure Wanted's intention is to say anything particularly profound. I think it's just trying to be a stylistic action picture – and though I'm alone on this, I think it mostly succeeds on that front.
big difference, agreed. One aims to be clever, the other insightful. Think of difference of two kinds of speakers, one that boasts, regales in arcane knowledge and stylized rhetoric, and one that earnestly tries to communicate something to the other person, style in service of that end.
I enjoy genre films, but they are usually preoccupied with themselves in a solipsistic way. Occasionally the genre aspects are just decoration for something more important (i.e. social commentary), in those cases I don't consider the films genuinely 'genre films', its all about intent, the goal of the film.
"solipsistic"
Good word usage.
I suspect Kick-Ass is genuinely a genre film wearing post-mod clothing.
kind of fun having opinions about films I haven't seen.
"Think of difference of two kinds of speakers, one that boasts, regales in arcane knowledge and stylized rhetoric, and one that earnestly tries to communicate something to the other person, style in service of that end. "
I think the world needs magicians as much as it needs priests. And cannot the boastful full of arcane knowledge also communicate human truths? I believe so. Just as the 'tries to communicate' can be just as trite.
I tend to like both the cinema of The Coen Brothers and Ken Loach as much as I like the cinema of Antonionni and Fellini. Michael Moore and D.A. Pennebaker. (etc. etc. etc.)
Kick-Ass just tends to be on the Coen Brothers side of the cinematic scale. I like and appreciate, experience something good from both kinds. Isn't it good to have a lot of flavours? Sometime the candy is as good as the vegetables.
Yes, I'll cross metaphors until the cows come home (to roost!)
@Rot, "I suspect Kick-Ass is genuinely a genre film wearing post-mod clothing."
except the post-mod clothing is kind of the point. I highly doubt the sly self-commentary is an accident in the film. It is woven so thoroughly into things, and the fact that it is also very indulgent of its audience is the feedback look of meta-earnest that seems to be the playing field here. Again, Edgar Wright, Coen Brothers, hell, I think someone mentioned Charlie Kaufman's ADAPTATION as well.
"I think the world needs magicians as much as it needs priests"
agreed. and they serve two different purposes, thats my point. some magicians aren't particularly entertaining, some priests aren't particularly illuminating, and either can indirectly blend into the other, but they come with some specific intent in mind, and their actions strive to fulfill those intentions.
Its not a bad thing to say a 'genre film' wants to entertain and an 'art film' wants to illuminate, I am not going to compare Death Proof with Passion of Jeanne D'Arc, they don't belong on the same sliding scale of value. I like my Avatar over here, and my Nights of Cabiria over there. I will not pretend they are equal because they are distinct, thats left up to personal taste.
and I only now got what you did with the title of this post. I think subconsciously I have been bashing on Kick-Ass because of my dislike of that other film.
We all have our biases, but man you are completely wrong about the bloody awesomeness of Miller's Crossing.
I own the film so I suppose at some point I will rewatch it, but as it stands, ugh.
I like Coen's brothers film, but I was not a fan Miller Crossing. Too over top without the payoffs.
I think we need less magicians, and even less priests. What cinema needs to be all it can be, is earnestness and authenticity.
What Hollywood needs to stop doing is aim strictly at the fanboys. Just like all the blockbusters that are producing: mostly comic books or nostalgic properties. Spread the blockbuster demographic. Some for adult, some for fanboys, some woman, and some etc. Before Jaws and Star Wars, Hollywood produce many mainstream films aim at an adult audience. For example, The Graduate is the fourth highest grossing film all time! When Kick-Ass is deem as being an "adult" blockbuster, you know the target demographics of Hollywood blockbuster. Kick-Ass is like buying a gourmet burger at McDonald's. It might be gourmet, but it is still McDonald's.
Antho42, Kick-Ass is not Hollywood, it's an indie film distributed by Canada's LIONSGATE. It's can afford to cater to a more niche audience with it's R rating because it is only a $30M movie and not a $130M movie.
As to Hollywoodland making adult movies as the norm, well that ship has sailed long ago, most 'adults' have stopped going to the theatre on a regular basis, because the actual multiplexes are more like kiddie theme parks than an evening out for adults. The key demo these days seems to be 16-30. You want adult cinema, you had best start attending film festivals and getting a multi-region dvd player,
Yep, I knew that it was made with Vaughn's independent money. But like District 9 and Cloverfield it was market as a blockbuster. Hence, it got more than 3,000 screening in North America. I know that there is adult film being made in the Independent and foreign circuit, but I want to see a few "adult" blockbusters. Basically, I want to see more Children of Men, The Bourne Films, and The Prestige type blockbuster. Looking at the summer calender, Inception looks like the only blockbuster that fits the criteria(hopefully).
@antho42, "I want to see more Children of Men, The Bourne Films, and The Prestige type blockbuster."
I am right with you on this, but I do not think Hollywood or the other distributors feel there is enough of a market to support the $50-60M styled adult-oriented blockbuster anymore. Sad, but true.
I'm excited for Inception, and I liked Shutter Island, and I'm stoked for Tree of Life if Malick ever finishes the darn thing. But something like THE ROAD or STATE OF PLAY or even IN THE LOOP, didn't seem to gather much $$ at the box-office. Heck even DUPLICITY didn't make much money. The multiplex has been turning into the themepark for years.
Thank god for Film Festivals, they tend to be the mecca for more adult driven films.