I have cut and pasted an interesting conversation with friends over on facebook.
It comes down to the attachment people feel to a genre (pragmatic or fanboy) and how when something warps it outside your perceived safe-zone (Jumping the shark if you will) As in sparkling vampires with teen angst. Does it undermines the original material and what that whole genre represents? I for one do not have a problem with this. Do you?
The conversation is tucked under the seat.
I can’t be worse than Twilight though
How about complaining about it because it’s yet another tiresome vampire flick?
Personally I get amused by the whole vampires shouldn’t sparkle rules. Its not like Twilight actually has any impact at all on whether Stoker’s works are good or not. To me its like complaining Harry Potter is bad because it doesn’t follow some old work of fiction on wizards or that Let the Right One in because it twists the rules.
Personally I’m glad that Twilight and other works of fictions take classics and use them as a basis and create new rules. If Twilight just followed all the exact “rules and laws” of Vampires then there would be no point of it existing…. Read More
Oh and no I’m not saying enjoyed the movie. I thought the dialogue was terrible at points, I think some of the acting was horrendous and I hate the fact that it feels the need to create emotion through slow motion and music.
That’s why I’m not going to see it. I thought the visual effects looked pretty well done, sparkly or no.
The special effects were definitely fine. They weren’t mind blowing but they were good enough. I think all the people who bitch about them from the commercials are just looking for another excuse to slam the movie.
@Ginger – I … Read Morecan see why some people love it for “romance”. It is basically a romance amped up to 11. Personally, I’d prefer to see a stronger lead female character and a better story and dialogue to drive the romance.
I didn’t say *anything* about “rules and laws” of Vampires. I said I think it’s stupid that they sparkle. That has nothing to do with “rules and laws”, which don’t even exist. I was trying to suggest that anyone familiar with the traditional genre, in particular its founders, would be slapping themselves in the forehead at how far this crap has gone from *good* stories.
I mean, seriously. The only thing separating this series from Sweet Valley High dreck is the sparkling. Which is why I will not see the movie. It’s bad because it’s poorly written, it’s formulaic, it’s trite, it’s mundane, and it’s predictable. I’m only assuming that the movies have good SFX going for them, but so did Armageddon, and it was TERRIBLE.
This is the simple argument I hear from everyone. I really don’t have a problem with the rest of your arguments those are fine and true. I haven’t chatted with you in person to have heard your other arguments but for me those arguments have … Read Morenothing to do with the quote I took from your comment.
I was thinking of an interesting parallel (this isn’t directed at you but just the majority who simply say Vampires don’t sparkle) in 28 Days Later. Zombies don’t run therefore 28 Days Later is a bad movie.
If you think Sparkly vampires as anything to do with my response to Ginger’s comment…you’re clearly not giving enough thought on how to freak out your players… Read More. :p
(Plus it work against the aesthetics of the vampires in your game, which frankly I find to be a lot more effectively creepy that most standard Vamp portrayals in the past few decades since they seem to operate outside of the understanding of human behaviour or reason.)
If you want to watch it onl1ne for free,...
Just so everyone knows I have copied this conversation over to Row Three because I think it is very interesting and I would love to hear more people’s thoughts. Cause in effect saying that Twilight lessens Vampire Lore overall is the equivalent of saying that movie remakes lessen the original if they are not good and that adaptations of other works lessen the original if they adaptation is not as good. This also should mean then that if the adaptation is better that it should increase the value of the original source material.
Comment by John Allison — November 23, 2009
Comment by Marina Antunes — November 23, 2009
MY biggest problem with Twilight. Even though we hate it, we still talk about it. And there I go again.
Comment by Lyz — November 23, 2009
That’s not really what Twilight is about. Yes, it’s about desire but the only thing keeping the relationship from being consummated is the fact that Bella’s human and the reason Edward doesn’t want to turn her: he doesn’t want to take her soul. Spoiler – eventually there is sex. Lots of it.
Comment by Marina Antunes — November 23, 2009
There is actually a couple places in New Moon where they do feel like monsters and I like that part. Most of it of course takes place in Italy and really has nothing to do with the Cullens which is a shame as I would like a bit more of the monster side in that family. Even the youngest who still has a taste for blood doesn’t come across as a monster in the one scene where he thirsts for blood. That is sidetracking though.
I can’t copy it now as facebook looks to be down but someone threw up a comment about the sense of ownership when it comes to something like and it really just all comes down to that. Most of my friends who like vampires like the nasty monster with a touch of romance and when it doesn’t have that they feel compelled to rail against it. Me personally, I’d rather just ignore it or even better pester my friends with discussions about how they don’t really know its bad because they haven’t seen it.
Comment by John Allison — November 23, 2009
Comment by Marina Antunes — November 23, 2009
I’d say it does based on my experiences with comic fandom. An old marvel mini called RUINS in which much of Marvel’s character stable was subjected to grisly fates in a nightmarish world gone wrong put off a lot of people, even though it was clearly not part of the main Marvel universe and was meant to be a deadpan black comedy. (Admittedly it wasn’t that good at communicating the latter.) And much of it was due to people seeing childhood characters they grew up with getting mutilated. (An even more extreme example would be the collective howls of indignation when preview art for Grant Morrison’s then-upcoming X-Men run was unveiled; by the reactions alone you think he had entirely restaffed the team with depraved villains and made Xavier and pederast, but no it was simply because people did not like the particular line-up and costumes.)
I’m not sure if complaints about Twilight are exactly analogous to these examples (certainly the ones in this discussion are not as extreme as the latter example), though the basic psychological mechanism seems about the same. I’ve made similar complaints about pop-punk relative to classic punk in the past.
Comment by Adam Crocker — November 23, 2009
That’s certainly the perspective that Raymond Chandler and Alan Moore both expressed on film adaptations of their work (I really don’t know what Chandler’s attitude towards the adaptations of his work was though). Personally, I’d say that Twilight weakening the vampire myth is dependent on what it’s long-term effects are perceptions and portrayal of the Vampire. That seems a bit early to tell.
I will however, argue, that the power of Vampire mythos has already been weakened by overexposure and overuse in popular culture, particularly the romanticized outsider portrayal seen with Angel, Interview With a Vampire, etc. In that way Twilight’s really just the decadence of a particular approach to the Vampire mythos.
Comment by Adam Crocker — November 23, 2009
Also, the fourth book did badly once all the sex was added. Fans were outraged and critics panned it. It doesn’t fit the universe to have that much sex, or in a way, sex at all.
But I would have loved them to be more monstrous, this would helped sooooo much.
SPOILER: I’ve only read a few scenes from Breaking Dawn in a moment of sado-masochism. When Bella is turned, she can control her hunger. There is NOTHING horrific about a vampire that has got everything under control.
Comment by Lyz — November 23, 2009
As for the sex, it may have been a bit much – personally, I preferred the suffering romance that is always on the brink of consummation but never quite gets there. At least if you DO go there, give me more than feathers.
As for Lestat, I never found him particularly alluring. An asshole, yes but never attractive.
Comment by Marina Antunes — November 23, 2009
*Spoiler*
I think that is where Breaking Dawn went bad as well, Lyz, but not for the sex itself but rather how she wakes up bruised ‘but it’s ok’ and how that steps too closely to being battered.
Comment by Shannon the Movie Moxie — November 23, 2009
Comment by kurt — November 23, 2009
Comment by Laura Desiree — November 23, 2009
Comment by VFX course — November 24, 2009
Comment by Lyz — November 24, 2009
Comment by Kurt Halfyard — November 24, 2009
Comment by Peter k. — November 24, 2009
Twilight Quiz
Comment by Brinkley — December 16, 2009