Cinecast Episode 110 – Paint by Numbers

cinecast_promo.jpg

Episode 110:
Quite the rambly show that covers a lot of ground today. So come on in and listen to a couple of geeks talk everything from French avant garde to animated documentaries to grade B, popcorn cinema for a couple of hours. It’s good fun.
C’mon in!

Click the Audio Icon below to listen in:

Below the fold are the Show Notes…

Show notes for the Cinecast Episode 110:

  • Intro music: :00 – 3:10
  • Opening crap: :15 – 1:39
  • Oscar talk: 1:41 – 24:58
  • What we watched: 25:00 – 1:06:28
  • Waltz with Bashir: 1:06:29 – 1:23:59
  • Uninvited: 1:06:29 – 1:37:40
  • Taken: 1:37:41 – 1:58:05
  • “On the Road”: 1:58:06- 2:02:23
  • DVD picks: 2:02:24 – 2:12:44
  • Closing stuff: 2:12:45 – 2:19:48
  • Outro Music: 2:16:16 – 2:21:08

Bumper Music (with iTunes links) provided by:

The Hush Sound
“A Dark Congregation” (album: Like Vines)
AND
Midnight Juggernauts
“Into the Galaxy” (album: Dystopia)


Track Row Three:

RSS Feeds (paste these URLs into your favorite RSS reader):

Cinecast (Andrew and Halfyard show)
After the Credits (Marina and Co.)
ALL the RowThree Podcasts on one feed
All posts and discussions from RowThree

Visit us on iTunes:


Oscar Talk:

The Nominees
The 5 films that SHOULD’VE been nominated


Stuff we looked at:

Harlan County USA
King of the Hill (aka El Rey de la montaΓ±a
Boarding Gate
Irma Vep
LOST


Waltz with Bashir:
Marina’s review


Uninvited:


Taken:
Andrew’s review (coming soon)

Commando “body count” clip:


“On the Road” with Andrew’s iPod segment:
Bangkok Dangerous

Andrew’s smile per mile quotient: .3


DVD Pick(s) for Tuesday, February 3rd:

Kurt:
Xanadu
Xanadu

Blu-Ray
Afro Samurai: Resurrection
Afro Samurai

Andrew:
Bottle Shock
Bottle Shock

Blu-Ray
Sideways
Sideways

Other films out on Blu-Ray:
Gamorrah
Clerks II
Napoleon Dynamite


Comments or questions?
Leave your thoughts in the comment section below, or email us:
feedback@rowthree.com (general)
andrew@rowthree.com
kurt@rowthree.com

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Goon
Guest

re: BSG and claiming its not doing examinations of concepts anymore – man you havent been paying attention.

there is a lot of plot happening right now, but it is very thoughtful, nuanced and focuses as it has been in its best time. I'd say the show is better now at this point as its winding down in the 4th season than ever.

sure the 3rd season had a down turn for a while where they lost their footing, but by the end of that season they were very much back on track.

Goon
Guest

According to the show notes what is between 24:58 and 39:51 is mystery content.

Ashley
Guest

Shockingly, Sidney Lumet has never won an Oscar, aside from the 2005 Honorary Award, which doesn't really count in the same way a *real* Oscar would … not that they really mean anything either, but you know …. He was nominated four times for directing: 12 Angry Men (1957, David Lean won for Bridge on the River Kwai), Dog Day Afternoon (1975, Milos Forman won for Cuckoo's Nest), Network (1976, Rocky won — what?!), and The Verdict (1982, Attenborough for Ghandi won), and was also nominated for co-writing the adaptation of Prince of the City in 1981 (on Goldon Pond won). Very sad. Just as sad is Jenny Lumet's snub for Rachel. Yeah, the Oscars really suck this year.

I haven't seen Harlan County USA, but I recognized Barbara Kopple's name when you mentioned her. She's done lots of documentaries. None that I've actually seen and none that seem to have been as big as HC, up until Shut Up and Sing with the Dixie Chicks a few years ago. I didn't like that one at all, but that's more about my political standpoint than the quality of the filmmaking. I guess it shouldn't surprise me that Kopple sits way to the left of centre, like most of Hollywood. The project I know her from best is one of her only ventures into fictional storytelling, which is the direct-to-DVD Anne Hathaway flick Havoc. It's a great film, I was surprised that it never got a theatrical release after I saw it. With the stigma straight-to-videos have, I wasn't expecting much. Freddy Rodriguez from Bottle Shock is also in it, and Joseph Gordon-Levitt has a small part.

And Bottle Shock by the way, despite being totally predictable, is a fun movie. Certainly not a top-ten-of-the-year kind of movie, but I picked it as an overlooked honourable mention. Alan Rickman and the entire cast are great. I can't wait to see what Chris Pine does next, after Star Trek makes him famous.

Ashley
Guest

And Kurt, go watch Lost. Now. Please! You won't be sorry, I promise. For the last episode, I was talking online to my Australian friend who's also a fan of the show, and I couldn't type fast enough because so much was going on. And yes, there is A LOT of plot, but the characters are what makes it interesting. Every single one is so detailed, you love them all. And half the fun really is discussing the show with other fans, even if you're not normally into that sort of thing. I'm not, I don't even subscribe to cable. But I download this show or ask friends to tape it, or go to their houses to watch the original broadcast, anything to get my hands on each episode as fast as possible. And then I break it down in minute detail and can't wait for the next show. I have to quote Andy Warhol here, it's just too appropriate: "the idea of waiting for something makes it more exciting."

Henrik
Guest

Lost is nonsense. Built around showing an explosion without context, then trusting people to care as the characters try and figure out why something blew up.

Jay C.
Guest

Didn't we establish previously that you haven't actually seen Lost Henrik?

Henrik
Guest

I saw the double-header that opened the new season at a friends house.

Ashley
Guest

Henrik, if you've only seen the premiere of the fifth season, you probably didn't understand a second of it. Go back and watch the pilot. I was skeptical at first too, but Andrew challenged me to watch the pilot and *not* get hooked. I never pass up a challenge, and I definitely don't regret this one!

Matt Gamble
Guest

Lost fucking sucks. Give me The Prisoner any day.

Henrik
Guest

It's not that I couldn't follow the plot, obviously I was not expecting to know what was going on in an episode like that, it's how it's told that is just so dependant on wether or not you think the action is exciting, wether or not you care about murder plots. It's like Pulp Fiction, except everything is actually about the case.

I saw one clip of the pilot that starts with somebody saying "better not stand in front of the engine or else you'll get sucked in and die" and then some thumping music and somebody stands in front of the engine and gets sucked in and dies.

Goon
Guest

"if you’ve only seen the premiere of the fifth season, you probably didn’t understand a second of it. "

Quoted for truth. Lost (and BSG, for that matter) are especially shows that are treated as if they are one very long movie. In the grand scheme of things right now, Lost is sort of at a "action scene" part of that overall movie.

I mean you're complaining about knowing the context. Pfft, you're expecting a show to pander to the people who drop in unexpectedly who may never come back, an explosion happens and even though all the people who watch it care, you complain because they didnt take half an hour to reintroduce the characters to people watching for the first time. Lame. If you really want a show like that, watch CSI or some bullshit like that.

I wish I could have that 'jump in and judge' attitude. I should watch the last 5 minutes of a football game after all the scoring, where its close and tense and there may not be anything to really cheer about, and then just say it must be a shitty game because they didnt rescore everything for me while I was watching.

Goon
Guest

"It’s like Pulp Fiction, except everything is actually about the case."

Keep talking. its amusing watching someone who has no idea what they're talking about insist that they are right in face of the people who do know.

rot
Guest

everything is cyclical here… but I will say again, Lost is not great art, its not about character nuance, its about ideas and entertainment. The formula is tiresome, but thats what it is, a cliffhanger serial with several commercial breaks over seven seasons, it has to fit the imposede structure, which is a shame… it would have been great as HBO no holds barred storytelling… but even within these confines Lost is worth watching, the story is so damn good its worth the effort.

Henrik
Guest

***SPOILER***

***SPOILER***
I didn't expect anything from the show, other than the aesthetics to at least be acceptable. There was a time-jumping thing which seemed like the worst storytelling device ever conceived (on par with getting rid of violence in Conan The Adventurer through the abyss). The acting was on par with what I see in Command & Conquer cutscenes (which came to mind because one of the actors, the dude with his shirt off, actually appear in one C&C game) that scene with the fat guy having a moment with his mother was embarrasing, the music was absolutely dreadful. I just can not imagine anybody caring about anything when the story itself can jump about without any explanation, like the dude in the suit, does anybody care if he understands what that nerdy dude tries to explain to him? The guy killing somebody with the dishwasher was pretty cool though.

Henrik
Guest

Oh, and about the explosion bit (which I don't think actually occurred, I was using a metaphor) my point is that I don't care about explosions in any context at all. I hate movies that are about shit like that, like Mulholland Drive or something, so dependant that you are interesting in what is up with the bag of money to tell the story, well I'm not interested in bullshit like that. I don't care at all.

Rusty James
Guest

@ … but I will say again, Lost is not great art, its not about character nuance, its about ideas and entertainment. The formula is tiresome, but thats what it is, a cliffhanger serial with several commercial breaks over seven seasons

Dude, as I've asked before, are you really this embarassed over enjoying a mainstream TV show? Do you apologize for loving your dog too? When someone asks you about the Elmore Leonard novel you've been reading do you start explaining that you wanted to read a 'fun' book, not a 'good' book?

And I sometimes think you sell the charaters short. The acting is over pretty strong with some rough patches (it's tough to disagree with Henrik about some of Sawyers recent scenes). I think Terry O'Quinn has created a genuinely three dimensional multi faceted character in John Locke.

Rusty James
Guest

@ I saw the double-header that opened the new season at a friends house.

and Henrik, I sincerely doubt you have a friend. Just admit you watched an episode of LOST.

Rusty James
Guest

Henrik's Friend: Hey 'Rik, want to come over and watch LOST

Henrik: I assume that is one of your many attempts at humor that so consistently befuddles me. No one could be so dense as to think that I could ever be interested in such parochial childishness. Such American filth can't possibly compare to the rich textures of Bergmans Scener ur ett äktenskap.

I'll be much too busy watching old episodes of TMNT and revising the newest edition of my suicide manifesto. I'm thinking of doing away all together with Volume 17: Why Bathing Is Futile.

And no, you can't read it. Stop asking.

(the other person has long sense walked away. It turns out he had been joking)

Rusty James
Guest

Man, I am an asshole.

Three posts in a row. Picking three distinct fights.

Sorry all, just disregard.

Rusty James
Guest

@ sure the 3rd season had a down turn for a while where they lost their footing, but by the end of that season they were very much back on track.

You think so?

I really thought the 4th season was the nadir of the series. Every episode was some pointless dredge through the depressing. And when you look at how the finale resolves things it's unreal how little progress was made. The entire season could've been fit into about 3 episodes.

I agree that so far season 5 has been a return to form.

Henrik
Guest

I did see it at a friends house.

"Such American filth can’t possibly compare to the rich textures of Bergmans Scener ur ett äktenskap."

This is decidedly true. Funny thing though, we have also been watching episodes of X-Files, season 2 and 3, and I don't think it's out and out horrible. Some of them has nice moods, and I enjoy the barebones quality of it, it's workmanlike in all aspects, there is no reaching for emotional content.

I actually tried to see some episodes of the TMNT cartoon on youtube and couldn't stand it. I don't think it holds up at all.

If I wasn't so lazy, maybe I would have a manifesto. I doubt it though, I just say whatever I think, no need to write it and hide it.

Outside of the friend thing, it's not that harsh. Don't feel bad for being an asshole, just don't pretend to not be one when you get called out.

Rusty James
Guest

@ just don’t pretend to not be one when you get called out.

that doesn't sound like me.

Henrik
Guest

I don't personalize my life lessons.

Goon
Guest

"I agree that so far season 5 has been a return to form."

are you talking about BSG or Lost? Because you're referencing a post I was making about BSG, and the current season is still season 4 – they just had a long break between the two halves.

Rusty James
Guest

BSG. I know they keep saying it's season 4 but that's bullshit. There's no such as a TV season split up over 2 years. That's why they call it a season. You may as well argue that the whole show is one season that happens to have been broadcast over a five year period.

I'm sticking to my guns on this one.

rot
Guest

@Rusty,

I am not embarrassed, just trying to put Lost in perspective, which usually comes right after Henrik attacks its lack of artistry (I swear we are in a time loop here). I would never say Lost is flawless, it is uneven, it has flaws that are probably more apparent if you are an occasional viewer, like the closeted Henrik, but Christ just look at the comment threads here for that show, name me another show that can cause that much activity? Clearly I do love Lost, but sometimes I think it could lose a little weight.

As for characters, I don't buy the depth of characterization, they are still ciphers to me, but enjoyable ciphers.

and Henrik you watched the fat dude talk to his mother and give a summary of the last four seasons… I just find that hilarious that the one episode you have seen is that one because it was clearly being played for comedy, at the sheer absurdity of the story when you try to encapsulate it. Just think of them pitching that idea to ABC… I am still in awe that this was ever made… its like Twin Peaks, this rare breach of the conventional

Henrik
Guest

I'm not closeted. I just like good stuff.

Sure it's played for comedy, when the mother is sat there with her fat stereotypical accent going "… I believe you my son. What you say is crazy… but I believe in you." and there was another point where it's like somebody says to do something, and they go why, and he says "Just trust me". Might as well be looking at the camera and winking.

"this rare breach of the conventional"

You lost me.

"name me another show that can cause that much activity?"

Maybe if you think real good, you can come up with one yourself. Here's a clue, it's from the 1960s.

Rusty James
Guest

@ As for characters, I don’t buy the depth of characterization, they are still ciphers to me, but enjoyable ciphers.

Have you watched the episode Deus Ex Machina recently?

Goon
Guest

"You lost me."

He basically said the show is original.

I'd essentially agree. The show has cribbed a lot of references from a lot of places, particularly some influence from Stephen King, but in most cases those are really in how characters are named, anagrams, biblical, mythical and historical references. A lot of that stuff is essentially icing for the show diehards to research and get a little extra enjoyment out of, but the overall core of the show really is unlike anything else.

Yes, Lost has its faults, and most of it comes from the fact that it is a network program. And yet in spite of it they have managed to overcome a lot of network roadblocks, especially in regards to creativity and the desire of networks to prolong a popular show forever so long as it remains popular.

Lost is probably one case where the fans of the show are probably its best critics. We point out the most glaring problems of the show but at the same time essentially accept them and move on because its not worth dwelling on. For example, a big one is how if a character demands to know something from another character, you get a lot of "we dont have time for explanations!" responses, as if they couldnt explain on the long walk back to camp or something.

Its kind of like how pro wrestling fans have to stretch beyond their knowledge of it being fake to the point of believing those wrestlers are actually getting momentum from bouncing off the ring ropes from Irish Whips.

Also the acting ranges all over the place, and sometimes some people seem out of place. You reference that scene with Hurley and his mom, when they are basically the comic relief characters. If anything seriously bad ever happened to Hurley, the fans would revolt. he's untouchable. But he has enough serious moments that you can see he's not exactly the best actor they have. On the other hand you have Michael Emerson as Ben, who can go from one liner comedy to pure evil in one second, and you can take him seriously even though he inhabits a Fraggle-ish frame. I always liked Lost, but the Ben Linus character made me love Lost.

"Might as well be looking at the camera and winking."

While the show is a drama, it doesn't take itself completely seriously. The scene you mentioned is doing exactly that, looking at the camera and winking. That was the point. Comic relief characters can get away with this sort of thing. They had to have a character finally explain what happened to them during the first four seasons, the writers realized how ridiculous it would sound if you summarized it in a couple paragraphs, so they just went with it. Apparently everything has to be taken so seriously even at the risk of looking stupid by keeping your poker face? I don't see anything to be upset about unless you are actually looking for things to be uspet about.

Which you clearly are.

Ashley
Guest

Michael Emerson is awesome! My dad doesn't watch the show, but he's walked into the room while I was watching a few times and whenever he sees Ben, he says "that guy freaks me out!" And he doesn't even know what's going on. πŸ™‚

Ashley
Guest

Andrew: funny I should mention Havoc today, because a few hours after I wrote that first post, I came across a hilarious review of the movie over at a site called VideoGum, which is on a quest to find the Worst Movie of All Time. Havoc made the nominees list, which surprised me because a) I enjoyed it, and b) nobody else has ever heard of it. But after reading the review, I definitely agree with the writer's points. There are some ridulously awful moments in the movie. But Anne Hathaway makes it work for me. She can probably sell me any crap screenplay.

You can read the review here:
http://videogum.com/archives/the-hunt-for-the-wor

Henrik
Guest

"prolong a popular show forever so long as it remains popular."

You see to me, inventing a timelapse element is proof of this exact thinking. It's a fucking shitty, lazy way to try and create some tension, and it's a plotdevice that opens up tons of freedom for writers to come up with new shit for season after season.

"Its kind of like how pro wrestling fans have to stretch beyond their knowledge"

Well, if you are arguing that Lost is on par with pro wrestling in terms of storytelling and relevance to thinking people, then we have no argument. I agree.

Lost to me seems like an average action movie. That just lasts like 70+ hours. Not worth it.

rot
Guest

The best episode for characterization on Lost I would say is the Constant. And Goon is right, some of the actors are working on a different plane then the others, and Hurley is on a lower rung.

I still say Lost is Plot over Character, and this is a big part of why Henrik turns his nose up to it. Plot no matter how imaginative, how well it moves ciphers around and plays with expectations and waxes philosophic about life, does nothing for Henrik, he sees it as a means to an end, the end being characterization. Lost makes me want to write, makes me want to get lost in imagination, its all about the story, about telling stories, big tales that getting bigger with each episode.

so who is going to sign the petition to get Kurt to watch Lost already?

Goon
Guest

Listen dude, you're continuing to argue based on knowing next to nothing, insisting a time lapse element is proof of something rather than something that has been hinted at and promised to be coming for a long while. You've spent more time insisting its not worth watching than actually watching, and almost everything you say proves you don't know what you're talking about in regards to this show. You must really like arguing if you have to keep going, hoping you can somehow shovel your way out of the massive hole you've dug for yourself.

This is among your all time stupidest rails against the windmill.

Henrik
Guest

Hard to argue with people who's drinking the coolaid and are deadset on justifying it.

"something that has been hinted at and promised to be coming for a long while. "

If that's all it takes, well, there is a reason you like so much shit that I don't think is worth spending time on.

Henrik
Guest

"Plot no matter how imaginative, how well it moves ciphers around and plays with expectations and waxes philosophic about life, does nothing for Henrik"

I love RoboCop. I guess it is ultimately about the character though, fighting against the system that wants him to be product, fighting against the genre and the plot that wants him to be a superhero.

Let me see… Now the onus is on me to find a plot I like? Die Hard I like. Most would be stuff I saw as a kid though, in later years – and all the stuff I would describe as essential in the life of a grownup – is about human beings.

Henrik
Guest

I love The Magic Flute and The Marriage of Figaro though. I also liked Valmont, based on Dangerous Liaisons, for the immaculate story.

If a story continously surprises me, I will like it. I just don't care for plot devices, I've seen so fucking many of them, it's not impressive.

Goon
Guest

"Hard to argue with people who’s drinking the coolaid and are deadset on justifying it."

This is so fucking dumb I almost want to yell.

"I dont know what the fuck I'm talking about, so obviously the people who do are clearly just drinking the Kool Aid"

Seriously. Henrik. You are being A FUCKING DUMBASS.

Goon
Guest

You know sometimes you are just so high on yourself that you cant admit you lack knowledge on the subject and might be wrong.

Goon
Guest

Look, I'm not trying to convince to to like Lost or even watch Lost. I dont really care, and based on your track record you may not like it anyways. All I'm saying is for you to sit here and with your 2 hours of watching the show vs around 75 hours from everyone else (plus hours of discussion, theorizing, etc), try to convince people that it sucks or that they're wasting their time. i mean if you think you're going to accomplish anything, it's not going to happen.

what is the point? are you just trying to find nuggets in other peoples arguments to try and further convince YOURSELF to avoid it?

Henrik
Guest

Hey, I don't engange in a conversation like this to try and convince you that it sucks, I'm just giving you an honest opinion of my experience with it, and you seem to dismiss it because I haven't seen enough of it. That to me suggests people just drinking the koolaid "I enjoy this and I'll be damned if anybody tells me I shouldn't" mentality. Pointless to have a debate at that point.

Marina Antunes
Admin

I agree with you on Boarding Gate Andrew. I rented it the weekend it came out on DVD (looked interesting) but I couldn't even make it through the entire film. Something about it continually rubbed me the wrong way. As for Argento – I do love her even in films I don't like. Of particular note is her excellent performance in Breillat's "The Last Mistress" which came out on DVD late last year. I have serious problems with the film but Argento's performance is not one of them. Can you say brilliant?! When she's on, she's a force of nature.

rot
Guest

Kurt, let me tell you why you should start watching Lost sooner rather than later.

1) There are seven seasons guaranteed, it is so writ, it shall be done. Everything is working towards the finale now, there is no worry of the show canceling.

2) I, like you, am not a big plot guy but like Andrew was trying to stress, this is not any old plot, this is a behemoth of imagination, of structure, that it can hold secrets over this many seasons and still not be like X-Files where it never reveals anything… the season premiere last month revealed a shitload, every episode reveals something now, its just that this concept is so damn big that it requires seven seasons to be told. Despite what some have been saying here, I don't think you will find much to be awestruck with with regards to character development, the joy of Lost is the story.

3) Waiting until the final season to start watching could be problematic because by that point the media will start saturating spoilers everywhere… I know the same happened with Sopranos… I tried as hard as I could to avoid knowing what happens but it became so big that you couldn't escape it… and the point of Lost is not knowing. Luckily you don't watch television at all because the commercials for Lost give away things unrelentlessly.

4) Andrew is right, Lost is as much a conversation piece as it is a separate work to be admired, and it would kind of suck to come at the end of the conversation. You say you don't have much interest in that, but Christ do you not talk incessantly about the arcane aspects of film, I don't see how this is any different, this is about as geek as anything you do talking about genre films.

ok thats my piece. Now I need to resist buying the blu-ray versions of every season… must resist.

Henrik
Guest

*****LOST SPOILER***

*******************

*******************

Yeah I can see Lost being surprising, but not in an organic way. Nothing is more out-of-left-field, holodeck-malfunctioning level storytelling device that random timejumps at the fingertips of the writers to create tension. That's just annoying, not a story unfolding continously, but rather imploding unto itself more and more untill the device is used up and logically can no longer work.

The episode I saw had as a big part of it, a plot to murder a specific character which was being talked about. Now, is that a "behemoth of imagination" I ask? I can see no reason to be interested, other than if you are emotionally invested in the characters involved in this plot, and if you are, then more power to you, you're just thinking on a different level than I am, clearly. Different folks, different strokes.

Goon
Guest

"1) There are seven seasons guaranteed"

Six seasons. Show ends next year.

"3) Waiting until the final season to start watching could be problematic because by that point the media will start saturating spoilers everywhere"

Yup, it will be headline news for the last several episodes. I had several major plot points of the last couple Six Feet Under eps spoiled by yahoo news, and tonnes of people were spoiled by the Sopranos ending.

I'm just ignoring Henrik at this point, if he wants to tag along on this ride and be proud of his ignorance he doesn't deserve to have his posts read.

kurt
Guest

Rot. I hear you loud and clear. I do. But I can't stand the thought of 'waiting' for the next episode/season, and while I can talk about arcane film construction bits, this isn't going to change coming into LOST at the end. The only thing that will change is the speculation talk about what is going to happen next, and that I have very little interest in.

I'll let you know that Andrew (ever the Lost-pusher) sent me an email specifically directing to your comment. I'm not being snubbish here, I just think I'll wait until I have the whole shebang in my hands and hopefully a week off the day-job to mow thru it. – This is pretty much what I did with THE WIRE as Seasons 1-4 were out when I started, and man, the wait for season 5 was painful – and this despite that each season of THE WIRE has a pretty satisfactorily stop point. I hate cliffhangers. I hate 'em unless i can move right along!

kurt
Guest

@Goon Somehow I avoided any Six Feet Under or Sopranos spoilers. I've watched neither of those shows and all I know is that people with -I'll say- generally poor (although I really mean not similar to mine – ha!) taste hate it, while peoples whose taste I generally can get on board with seemed to really like it. That is barely a spoiler for me other than to say that the show probably ended in an artsy sort of way rather than a 'big plot moment' sort of way.

besides, if I'm in love with the 'construction of the piece' plot or explanation spoilers don't bother me too much. Not that I go looking for them or want people to throw them in my face.

kurt
Guest

"Not so much “what is going to happen next”, but what the hell is happening NOW."

Cool.

Ashley
Guest

Kurt, if you're going to watch the whole thing at the end, you will need way more than a week. Technically, yes, if you watched 14 hours a day, breaking only for food and bathroom use, then it would take less than a week (6.25 days to be exact) to get through the whole series. But the show is so jam-packed with information, I don't think anybody could take that much Lost all at once. I allowed myself a good two weeks to get through each season when I was catching up on DVD, because I could only process three or four episodes a day. And I didn't even have a job, school, or family to worry about. So do yourself a favour, start renting the DVDs now, and between movie watching and all of life's other resonsibilities, you should be ready by the time the season six box set hits store shelves. πŸ™‚

Goon
Guest

Kurt, you have to keep in mind that each ep is around 45 minutes and that there's going to be over 100 hours of show by the time its through. This isn't like watching 3 seasons of Deadwood here, the first 3 seasons are around 24 eps, season 4 has around 13 (b/c of strike) and this and the next one around 16.

For all the hype though, if Kurt gave up on BSG so easily maybe he'll be one of the fools who gave up on Lost during season 2 in place of fucking stupid Heroes. πŸ˜›

rot
Guest

six seasons, huh, I guess that makes more sense… even more a reason for Kurt to start now. Five seasons of Lost all at once would be tough to do, I think Goon is right, start now and you will be ready by 2010.

rot
Guest

@Kurt, I don't understand your remark in the show that the 'what happens next' aspect to films and tv shows is not the draw for you, or in the comment thread, the idea that having the ending spoiled wouldn't bother you… think of Time Crimes… (and I have not seen it but am going by what you said about it) and think about how adament you were that the trailer gives away the film and by no means should you see it… well that is the same with Lost, I don't think it can be enjoyed if you knew where it was going, its chief draw is suspense.

You mentioned the subtext qualities of BSG as the stuff you really care about, well then, Lost probably won't be your cup of tea… is there any subtext to Lost? Its all about a story unravelling, complexities of the story that are able to consistently be suspenseful even when a fervent internet-savvy audience base are frantically trying to figure out what will happen next, and not once have they predicted it correctly. Its not a story with one final question everything is leading up to (who is Keyser Sose?) its a story that has probably I'm guessing a hundred very pertinent questions floating around and every so often some of them get answered, the scope pulls back a bit, you get a bit more of the mythology explained, but it wouldn't be alright to know the answer to a question beforehand, because its all so perfectly laid out, the entire project would be ruined.

that said, you don't know what happens at the end of Sopranos? What, are you living under a rock?!!!

Goon
Guest

"What, are you living under a rock?!!!"

It would explain how he still hasn't learned to pronounce Igor or Ben Affleck properly. πŸ˜€

Marina Antunes
Admin

I'm in shock. I can't believe it took Andrew this long to watch District B-13. For shame. πŸ˜‰

Jonathan
Admin

I don't watch Lost for the same reason I haven't gotten into Battlestar Galactica (even though I have the first two seasons sitting here, begging to be watched). It's just a huge investment of time, especially since I am so far behind and need to watch everything to be able to understand what the F is going on.

With that said though, as far as recent TV, I have never missed an episode of Californication or The Office and I've watched Arrested Development and Deadwood in their entirety. I've also watched the majority of Curb Your Enthusiasm.

So, maybe I don't watch Lost for the simple fact that it never looked very interesting to me. Same reason I have never once watched Heroes, not even a minute of it.

Rusty James
Guest

@ is there any subtext to Lost? Its all about a story

Again, have you rewatched Deus Ex Machina recently? I'd recommend it.

Henrik
Guest

"its chief draw is suspense."

I wholeheartedly agree with rot.

Marina Antunes
Admin

@Andrew I'm disappointed that you've relegated Speed Racer to ipod viewing on your drive. Deserves *much* better (at least a bigger screen!).

Henrik
Guest

Now, if I can be snarky for a moment here, and play up my villainous nature in terms of Lost and american TV in generel:

rot, considering the amount of hours you have spent on Lost, and the amount of hours you have spent on Scenes from a marriage, which would you say has enriched your life more, and is more important to you as a human being? Seems to me the answer would be obvious, and I get the need for constant entertainment, no matter how shallow or idiotic the need will persist, but surely somewhere along the line you must elevate your TV habits as well as your film habits.

rot
Guest

Fair point Henrik, but what I get from Lost is inspiration for writing, for imagination, it enriches my appreciation of the art of storytelling… say what you will about how hamfisted it sometimes delivers its story points, the actual puzzle structure of it, how intricate the whole is, its unlike anything I have ever encountered. I have a personal interest in writing, I would like to someday finish a script, so besides the pure enjoyment of the story that I get, I am also very interested in how exactly they can pull off such consistent suspense, and such a complicated sci-fi concept over six seasons.

As Goon said earlier, we fans are also major critics of the show, we see the flaws… and this last episode I thought was horrible, and the influx of characters is driving me insane, but for every step backwards it takes it goes two forward, and there are episodes of this show that are exceptional in their own right. Again, Henrik, you have no real perspective on the show, its like flipping to a page of a book and determining the value of the book. Sure you may be able to critique the style of that one page, but you do not understand it in context.

I also caught glimpses of episodes before I delved in and thought it looked like shit. Its not something that sells well as individual episodes, the island mythology is what sells it, and you need context to appreciate it.

rot
Guest

But in answer to your question, the effect of Scenes from a Marriage is more important to me, it goes back to that division I made in the 'Why We Fight' post

Film as craft

Film as Art

My interest in Lost is largely based on craft, on the magic trick of its storytelling that keeps me hooked.

Sopranos remains my favorite art experience via tv. And I know we have argued this before, but there has never been a more perfectly realized character in the history of television than Tony Soprano. Say what you will about where he comes from, what things happen around him, guns and violence, he is nuanced and complex.

Henrik
Guest

Well I can understand that argument, and it's just a difference in interest. I more or less think stories are things told to children, I have little interest in story for storys sake anymore. But why do you refer to it as magical then? You should be able to see the strings, as I am, when you watch something like Lost. If you're not, if it is indeed magical, then I doubt you'll find any insight into storytelling.

As for Tony Soprano, what is it that he has to offer? Even if it is an extraordinary character, hasn't he had like 10 seasons of screentime to become memorable? Not worth it. And even if he himself was a revelation (which he isn't), I would still hate The Sopranos because it felt it had to put in guns, crime and violence in order to keep morons interested. Compromised.

rot
Guest

Like Funny Games its a critique of the mentality not a glorification of it… Tony takes the easy road throughout his life, he is addicted to so many things and cannot get outside of his addictions, he tries and he tries, and he keeps becoming disgraced. The bulk of the show is spent in therapy sessions, which is all character, all about how this person processes the stuff happening around him. Its therapy, then family situations, than crime, two thirds of the show is a family man trying to live up to two different ideals that society tells him to be.

Tony offers a glimpse into the mundane minutiae of a psychotic, you see a thousand different inflections to how he interacts with the world, sometimes going against anything you would originally expect but in the end you see that he is psychotic, you have been so close to this person, felt for him, but the terrible realization is he is a despicable human being, morally and tragically complex, he is everything ugly in the world, but not portrayed as some kind of other (axis of evil), he is flesh and blood, caught in a situation partially out of his control, and his manifestation of the ugliness, the brute violence and psychotic tendencies are lived-in, and yes you have many many seasons to get that lived-in feeling, the point is you have it, if you stick with the show you get that mosaic of the man. And no one comes close to the dimensionality of this character, this character has been able to breathe like no other. He just so happens to exist in a culture of guns and violence. He is a cowboy essentially, trying to live out the american myth in a real world.

Henrik
Guest

"He is a cowboy essentially, trying to live out the american myth in a real world."

That's what I got from it as well, and it doesn't impress me. What are you going to do with a mobster other than make him think about being a mobster? In the end, he is no more real than the pipe.

But you also loved Revolutionary Road so it's probably just a case of us being in different places. You'll learn.

rot
Guest

as for blu-ray come on people… the discs are on average $20,the players something like $100, when exactly is it going to hit your sweet spot? Depending on the film there can be a significant difference in quality… so far Zodiac and No Country for Old Men are the selling features for blu-ray

Marina Antunes
Admin

@rot – where on earth are you shopping that you can get a Blu-ray player for $100? We've seen the shitty ones at Walmart for about $200 but nothing lower than that. I have noticed that the disc prices are coming down so that's a good sign but until they're selling them off at 2 for $30 prices (which is how I buy most of my stuff), I don't feel the pressure to upgrade.

Henrik
Guest

I'd love Blu-Ray but I'd have to upgrade my TV as well as the player, which I can't afford. Need money for drugs and alcohol.

rot
Guest

Well yeah its always $99 if you buy a tv… so just buy the tv already!

there are 2/$30 blu-ray discs…

the biggest drawback for me is the choice of films they bring out… so many good films I am waiting for to come out…

Matt Gamble
Guest

Blu-ray is a dead medium. Just stream HD online instead. It'll save you thousands.

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