It’s actually not that much of a stretch but it still took a moment to sink in. The big news around the interweb today is that Hong Kong superstar Stephen Chow, the man behind the great Shaolin Soccer, Kung Fu Hustle and the recent CJ7, is coming to America to direct, hold your breaths folks, Seth Rogen in the upcoming The Green Hornet. As if directing a big summer blockbuster in the US wasn’t enough, it also looks like Chow will be starring in the film playing the role of Kato opposite Rogen.
The film has been sitting at a standstill for a while now and not being familiar with the story, I’m not sure if it’s naturally comedic, but when it was announced that Rogen was attached to the lead, I assumed that this was going to be a bit funny and now that Chow is directing, we’re sure to expect an action comedy.
Will it be any good? I don’t know and frankly, it’s too early to tell. The film isn’t scheduled for release until June of 2010 (only studios, Olympic committees and people getting married plan this far in advance) so there are bound to be a whole load of new updates coming over the next few months.
I’m still not excited. I know no distinction between Green Hornet and Green Goblin (other than the fact that they’re two different comic book characters) and though I liked Shaolin Soccer and could appreciate moments in Kung Fu Hustle in general, action comedies are not my cup of tea. That said, Chow’s involvement puts this otherwise uninteresting adaptation on my radar.
@ “I know no distinction between Green Hornet and Green Goblin (other than the fact that they’re two different comic book characters)”
You know what, just because you’re completely ignorant about something doesn’t mean you have to keep making ignorant statements about it.
Green Hornet, not a comic book character. He was a Lone Ranger spin off character created for the medium of radio dramas.
Stop insulting the medium of comics, stop pretending you’re above a medium that you know nothing about, and just stop writing about comics if you’re going to insist on putting your foot in your mouth every time.
I know it’s mostly Andrew who’s guilty of this and I shouldn’t lump you in with him but frankly it’s becoming a site wide problem.
Rusty James
The Magic Of Cinema
Thanks Rusty. Lucky for you, I’m not completely incompetent when it comes to comics – I do read a few here and there just not these. Plus with the sheer number of adaptations kicking around at the moment, comic books and classic action hero/cartoons are blending together for me. I seriously thought that it was a comic book – didn’t realize it was a spinoff of anything. And I’m not knocking the movie – regardless of what it’s based on. It was one among many hundreds in development hell that I had no interest in and now with Chow attached, I AM interested – however mildly.
To make matters worse, I just realized that I even managed to confuse The Green Hornet for the Green Lantern. Ah shit.
That’s because SUPER HERO movies suck ass 95% of the time. Also, we’ve gone over the RowThree definition of comic book movie with you time and time again.
And Jesus Christ dude, regardless of what medium the Green Hornet started in, the fact is most people know him as a comic book character. I know it’s crazy, but it probably has something to do with the fact that he’s been appearing in them for over 50 years.
As for this movie, I hold out little hope. Kung Fu Hustle is fabulous. Other than that, I wasn’t a big fan of CJ7 (it was cute and had one good sequence) and Shaolin Soccer just felt like a lame proto-type for KFH. And Rogen in a lead won’t work.
“That’s because SUPER HERO movies suck ass 95% of the time. ”
How does that make them unique from just about any other genre of movies, or movies in general?
Yes, we’ve been over the comic book thing in general. If its going to go anywhere, in one sentence:
I believe you guys unfairly nitpick them because they are blockbusters and forgive the massive failings – from acting to repetitive themes and plots – of other genre films because they are either smaller productions that need attention or are generally more your taste to begin with.
btw Andrew, my comic nerd friend for obvious nerdy reasons takes issue with your statement he’s been appearing in comics for over 50 years.
There were scattered runs back in the 40s and it was revived around 1990. I don’t know why you need to know this, but apparently I have to put it out into the ether to educate everyone.
You make a good point Goon, I think you have it nearly right on. It simply comes down to taste. But I don’t think it’s unfair to bash them – and I don’t think 95% of ALL films that are released mainstream are as bad and brainless as 95% of COMIC book movies (i.e. super hero movie Rusty). I’ll go watch “The Women” or “Ghost Town” before I bother with another version of “Spiderman” or “Hulk” (except for the fact that I have to go see those movies in order to discuss them with all the internet sites).
Sure, we point out a low budget vampire flick and praise it a little bit more because it deserves to get noticed, but something like “Let the Right One In” is actually a good movie. We don’t just praise it because it’s an indy or foreign, we praise it because it’s a new take on the Vampire sub-genre. Just like we praised “The Dark Knight” or “Hancock” because it did something new and interesting in the super-hero genre.
So I don’t think we unfairly nitpick them because they are repetitive. They just always get people excited and talking and therefore we all see them and therefore talk about them more. None of us bothered with “The Women” this weekend. If we did, we talk about that and probably rip it to shreds as another one of those stupid, drama feminist flicks
.
I’m off to the Renassiance Festival now. Cheers!
mmmm turkey legs.
Seth Rogen as THE GREEN HORNET! Im sorry but I just don’t get it. How can anyone really get excited about this project. Would you want to see Batman and Robin or The Dark Knight? The answer is obvious. If the the film were played straight Rogen is all wrong, and if its a parady its just
disrespectful to the source material. AGAIN- I ask, WHY is Rogen involved with this project?
Hey Rusty, screw you, buddy! I constantly defend comic book movies on this site. Site-wide problem, my ass!
And yes entertainmenttodayandbeyond (is it Chuck?), that is SPOT ON. Although I will try and keep an open mind, I can’t see this becoming anything but a better written Starsky and Hutch-type movie.
Al Young over at TWITCH says it best, so I’m repeating his words here: “In the original Green Hornet, we all know that Bruce Lee is the main draw. He totally outshine the main lead. I want to see Chow portray Kato as a much cooler guy than the Hornet, despite his sidekick status. ”
The thing that worries me is the casting. I am still a bit iffy about Seth Rogen playing The Green Hornet. He doesn’t seem the heroic type. And it worries me it will be a comedy rather than a true superhero movie. I mean, let’s face, the Green Hornet radio show, movie serials, and even the Sixties TV show, were all done seriously.
Johnny B, sorry buddy. I didn’t mean to lump you in with the trouble makers. Kurt also has recanted of his comic book bad mouthing. So it’s not a site wide problem, I shouldn’t have said that.
Andrew, sorry for ignoring your personal definition of “comic book movie”. Your personal definition sucks. It’s basically as arbitrary as whatever you happen to decide counts as a comic book movie.
Maybe if your definition of comic book movie includes films that have nothing to do with comics but excludes actual comic book properties then many the problem isn’t on my end. Maybe the problem is that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Fer cryn’ out loud if you mean superhero movie then just say superhero movie. It’s just that simple. Just say what you mean instead of expecting everyone to conform to your own private ignorant definition.
Although I’ll point out that you liked Hancock, Wanted, Jump, Unbreakable(?).
and Andrew, Green Hornet is almost definitely most well known from the Bruce Lee TV show.
Rusty: touche. From now on I’ll use the term “superhero” movie. I understand that it may confuse a lot of new comers to this site.
But YOU (just like Gamble) knows what I mean.
I love:
Sin City (in top 100)
American Splendor (in top 100)
Persepolis (top 3 ’07)
Ghost World
Wanted
etc…
Jumper: liked it? a bit of a stretch, but I thought it had its moments and I thought the open-ended ending was cool.
Unbreakable: didn’t think much of it the first time (many years ago), but have been meaning to revisit it since I’ve liked his other stuff – including “The Village”.
Unbreakable >>> The Dark Knight.
The elevation of the genre came from an original, 7 years in advance. Fortunately, internet crowds were only children back then, so their ‘generational enlightenment’ came with The Dark Knight. Fortunately for Warner Bros. I mean, not for any thinking human being.
@But YOU (just like Gamble) knows what I mean.:
Bad writers are always going on about how “everyone knows I mean”.
On a related note, I have never liked a single comic book adaptation.
I don’t like Ghost World (one of those films that makes my blood percolate from anger), Sin City, V for Vendetta, A History Of Violence, Road to Perdition etc etc… daredevil kind of counts, I don’t like that.
Wanted was hit and miss, I’m apathetic towards american splendor.
I’m not counting manga, that’s really a beast unto itself.
“I have never liked a single comic book adaptation.”
Then what the fuck are you talking about!!? I feel like I’m debating Frank Drebin.
Well Rusty, did you like the Ninja Turtles movie
but seriously, what about Persepolis?
Wanted is pure miss from start to finish, I never saw page one of the comics until well after seeing the movie, but now that I have, it is the single greatest abortion of any film transscript I have ever come across. I think for me personally the previous record holder for that was “Be Cool”, the only thing of which they got right was casting The Rock, which if you read the book seems as if it was written with him in mind.
I get annoyed with critics, writers, etc. who proclaim hatred of Super Hero Movies/Comic Book Movies/(insert synonym here), especially when most of them won’t even give such a movie a chance (that is, they go in with the premise that the movie will be bad instead of just watching it and letting the movie itself show whether it’s good or bad). I happen to love a lot of SHM/CBM, but not all of them, and I usually tend to walk into such a movie with an attitude of “show me what you’ve got” (big exceptions: The SPIDER-MAN trilogy, because I am a major Spidey lover, and IRON MAN, because RDJ rules and thus the film’s already getting serious goodwill from me). Loved FANTASTIC FOUR, hated its sequel. Thought the first HULK was tedious but the reboot (THE INCREDIBLE HULK) was a gazillion times better. Thought SIN CITY was pretentious at best. DAREDEVIL sucked. SUPERMAN RETURNS was so bad I couldn’t even get through the first half-hour. BATMAN BEGINS was all right; THE DARK KNIGHT was a much better film but way too dark for repeated viewings IMO. The Michael Keaton BATMAN from 1989 is one of my all-time favorite movies. X-MEN was mediocre, X2 was better but dragged when it should have sprinted and raced when it should have slowed down a bit, and X3 is a really weak and over-populated film. THE SHADOW is underrated and a much better film than reviewers would have you believe (I routinely recommend it to anyone who hasn’t seen it, and they almost always love it). UNBREAKABLE is awesome and one of the best movies Shyamalan ever made. V FOR VENDETTA is another movie I couldn’t even make it through.
I really wish more people would walk into SHM/CBM with an open mind and allow the movie itself to define itself as good or bad, not pre-conceived notions and prejudices.
That’s just my opinion, though. Your mileage may vary.
Marina: I would encourage you to see some of Stephen Chow’s earlier films that he’s also directed. The guy has a wild sense of humor.
God of Cookery, From Beijing with Love, Justice My Foot.
Kimberly, we certainly do not agree on a lot of those super-hero-flicks above, but I like your passionate defense of them.
For the record, I loved Sin City, Hulk, Superman Returns, Unbreakable, Hellboy 2 and The Dark Knight because they treated their subject matter with a fair bit of artistry.
X-Men 2, Spidey 2, both Burton Batmans and the original Donner Superman because they had a great populist and entertainment driven sensibility.
And yea, Hancock was pretty solid.
But like most cash-cow genres (see also CGI kids films recently, Westerns in the 1950s, and slashers in the late 1970s early 1980s also) there is a glut of garbage — admittedly many of whom I’ve skipped outright — but far too many I’ve slogged thru.
Kimbery, EVERY movie I go into I give it a chance. Sure I might have certain expectations, but I never walk into a film thinking, “I’m going to give this movie 1.5 stars.”
But for the record, these expectations come from experience. I still don’t understand the love for the Spidey franchise. All three movies are the same and just don’t generate much excitement; you’ve seen Spidey swing around the city once and you’ve seen it 1000 times – to each his own though.
Then this summer we had a bunch of those come out that all did the same thing. Hulk, Iron Man and Hellboy. Guy makes a suit or becomes a monster. Gets angry about something. Fights a bigger version of said monster. End. Just boring and done over and over and over again. Which is why I liked movies like Sin City, Unbreakable and TDK. They try something new and run with it.
Oh, and if I were making a top 5 worst movies I’ve seen in the last 5 years, I’m pretty sure Fantastic Four would be on it.
Have to agree on Fantastic Four, boy oh boy was that film dreadful.
I was going to say I’ve been good at avoiding the comic book movies that I thought looked like shit, but its just not true
Daredevil – I thought Affleck would bring the whole thing down, but he’s actually not bad. What’s bad is the direction, especially during the action scenes where you cant tell a damn thing htats going on.
FF 1 & 2 – the first is dreadful cheese, the second to tell you the truth, I don’t hate. Its’ not good, but its not downright awful. It starts off as bad as the first, and the Surfer is actually itneresting enough to carry the thing to watchability.
Catwoman – I watched this on my birthday once drunk with friends to laugh at it, and it certainly did the job.
vs. Andrew – I don’t get where the hell Hellboy II fits into that motif you just described. The Price is pretty different from Hellboy, has his own particular motivations and style, and is actually quite nuanced. Maybe you’re just listing the ones you disliked, but if you mean to express that HBII is in the same mode as the new Hulk movie you’re unbelievably mistaken or grasping at the tiniest straw you can find to get in one extra kick.
I always go in hoping to be be entertained and sometimes, it’s successful. The list of comic book movies that I enjoy (even if they are bad) is quite long (I liked the first Fantastic 4, V for Vendetta, Constantine, Hellboy I and II, heck, the Blade trilogy – even the third – heck, even Dare Devil had fun moments). I go in hoping for the best but I lose interest when they take themselves too seriously because for the most part, they’re just trying to entertain and only a handful of them even manage that much.
Let us just say that as superhero movies go, Blade II fucking rules.
@ “Then what the fuck are you talking about!!? I feel like I’m debating Frank Drebin.”
Frank Drebin? I’m afraid I don’t get the reference. Anyways, I don’t see where the confusion is coming from.
First of all I’m talking about something different from you. I’m talking about films that are adapted from specific source material. Like Sin City, V for Vendetta or History of Violence. Not Superman Returns or Spider-man 3 which just takes characters that originated from comic and makes a movie out of them.
Secondly, I’m not using my opinions of movies to pass judgement on comics. That’s the main thing I take issue with you for. You call comics “trashy”; but the thing you have to base your opinion on is movies. That doesn’t make any sense.
From the files of Police Squad!
Rusty, I don’t believe I (or anyone on this site for that matter) have EVER ripped a single comic book (mostly because I’ve never read any). I’ve only bashed movies based on comic book characters.
But I think you hit the nail right on the head. Something I’ve never been able to put my finger on before. I tend to like the movies that are based on a specific idea or story line. I don’t like the ones that take a really popular character and just throw as much money at it as possible to see what the character can fight. Snoooooze.
PS – I love the fact that you can now drag the comments window and make it bigger and easier to read what you’ve typed. This RowThree place is a really great site.
@ “I don’t believe I have EVER ripped a single comic book [...]; I’ve only bashed movies based on comic book characters.”
http://www.rowthree.com/2008/02/17/review-jumper/
Haha. I read the comments section. Never seen that before. That’s kind of funny. You get a little too worked up over this little thing I think. It’s maybe not obvious, but A) the term “trashy” is used there in sort of a lovingly or “tongue in cheek” way. And B) I don’t rip any single comic movie, just the comic book universe in general.
And c’mon, in general aren’t comics a bit on the trashy side? Admittedly I never read them, but Sin City, Spider-Man, Animal Death Corps, etc… these things aren’t the slightest bit trashy? Sure, they’re not romance novels, but still. And also, I don’t necessarily think trashy is a bad thing. Some of my favorite (and best) films are trash.
So I don’t think that sentence was a bashing of any comic book. So my original statement still stands.
And what is the point of this anyway? Aside from your one little “out of context” comment you found, no one on here bashes comic books. Mostly because we just don’t care. We’ll bash a movie and if it happens to be based on the comic book world, please don’t take offense that we’re ripping your precious illustrations; cause we’re not. Nothing we ever say has anything to do with the source material, but only on the final product. Which is quite often a shit motion picture: The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man.
Oh and one more thing: Very often, I don’t even know many movies are comic book adaptations until I get home from the screening and read other reviews (Wanted, Ghost World, Persepolis, etc). Love these films and had no idea they were comic book movies until later. So if you’re insinuating that I would unfairly review a movie if I know it is a comic book adaptation before-hand, then you just don’t know me very well yet and I would take a bit of offense to that.
And going back to my review of Jumper, I guess I did like it a fair bit more than I thought. Now I’m considering revisiting it. Forgot Diane Lane was in it. And forgot about the original and intense car chase.
@”And c’mon, in general aren’t comics a bit on the trashy side? Admittedly I never read them”
It’s weird that you don’t see anything wrong with those two sentences.
Comic books are not a genre Andrew. They’re a medium. I don’t think Calvin & Hobbs, Watchmen, American Splendor, Eightball, Optic Nerve, Lone Wolf & Cub, David Mack’s Kabuki, Sandman etc are trashy. I think they’re great works of art.
I dare you read Acme Novelty Library or Black Hole and tell me they’re trashy.You’d make a fool of yourself. Anyone who would call Alan Moore’s From Hell “trashy” is a moron. (no, this not me urging you to read comics. I don’t care if you read comics. I’d like to stop making ignorant statements about the medium I love. Or at the very least acknowledge that many of your statements have been uninformed generalizations.)
@ “So I don’t think that sentence was a bashing of any comic book. So my original statement still stands.”
that’s ridiculous.
“…acknowledge that many of your statements have been uninformed generalizations”
I will not say that. I will admit to being uninformed of the comic book medium. But I also think you’re getting worked up over nothing. Other than the one little quote you found (which was not necessarily meant as a negative), I don’t rip on comic books. Simple as that. Never have and don’t care to. I rip on many (not all) movies based off of a comic book.
“I’d like [you] to stop making ignorant statements about the medium I love.”
Unless you’re talking about movies, I don’t do this. No where on this site (other than this thread) have I talked about the medium of comic books. You’re the one who keeps bringing them up. It’s like saying I constantly am bashing politics because I didn’t like “Syriana” or “Good Night and Good Luck*.”
* = both of these films I liked btw.
Andrew, you know what’s annoying? That you’re still claiming that you’ve never bad mouthed the medium of comics even after I pointed to a specific example of you doing so.
“Other than the one little quote you found” yeah Andrew, how many “little quotes” does it take to be fer-realsies? If I link to another example will you own up to your own words?
I cant stand it when people ask for an example and then dismiss it as “just one example”. Every example is “just one example”.
Obviously something like “Captain America”, “Spider-Man” or “Sin City” is trashy. The problem with Andrew is because his only relationship with comic books is through movies, he has a skewered view of them as being dominated by titles such as the ones that have been made into movies, which obviously are the ones that have proved most popular within the segments of the american population that major corporations want to sell their products to. That’s not a true assessment of what comic books are, and untill you start putting disclaimers whenever you talk about comic books with your current perspective, you will annoy people with your ignorance. Not because you want to, not because anybody wants you to and not because anybody takes it personal.
Fine, but I am tired of people claiming some sort of inherent value in a comic book, er, Super hero film that adheres to its source material, that in itself does not make a good film. Andrew and whoever else can still argue that comic book, er, Super hero movies generally suck, and it is for the reason I made long ago on the Iron Man thread: because they are one of the most conservative genres out there, they stick to a formula and you can count specific beats to the plot points, and I am thinking of Marvel adaptations mostly. There is something about the transfer of mediums that there is a refusal to break free of the mold, its tried tested and true… and so long as there are fanboys who are happy to check off the source material fetishisms in the film, and relate that to value, they will keep getting churned out.
fans of film in all its potential can get restless with this shackled use of the medium.
One does not have to know the source material to evaluate how good a film The Hulk is. The Hulk comics may be gangbusters but that is a different thing altogether, different mediums, different opportunities to tell the story.
At no point during this conversation, and conversations in other threads was it ever not clear (to me anyway) that Andrew was talking solely about superheros in tights.
Are you fellas (Henrik, Rusty) mad because you don’t like Andrew’s ‘definition’ or are you mad because you genuinely like all these superhero flicks?
Is the goal here to broaden Andrew’s horizons (i.e. have him change his definitions). I’m unclear why this conversation is still going in circles.
I don’t like most of the superhero films, and I’m certainly not mad.
Calling comic books trash is like calling black people niggers. You may not realize what the big deal is, but it’s a stigma they’re trying to overcome.
Fine. Jesus Christ. I take back the “trashy” remark (which again was said lovingly). I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, and was in no way fair comment, and was motivated purely by malice, and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you, or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.
If you can find any other example of my poorly worded remarks regarding the great medium of comic books, whether it be in ANY Cinecast or any article I’ve ever written in which I flat out said “comic books suck” or something along those lines, then I will recant those statements as well and admit that I made a misjudgment and uninformed statement about a medium of which I know nothing about.
now one more time, with heart
non-sequiter political aside:
McCain apparently wants to postpone the vice president debates as well as his own because of the Bailout hearings. At what point does the bullshit so encompass a human being that it leaks out every orifice?
That’s right Rot. All republicans are “Trashy”
I’m percolating over with rage at the bold face politiking of Republicans, whether it be McCain, Palin, Bush, and the media that accept the talking points they bring… and I guess this last strategem has put me over the edge… I realize democrats and republicans alike will do their share of playing off conditions irrespective of the integrity of actual issues, I know the rules of the game. But its the extra layer of politiking that the republicans do that really pisses me off, its this assumption that America is that stupid that they cannot see nor want to see what is so obvious in your pandering. Whether it be the lipstick on a pig, swiftboating, or the boldest of bullshit lies, saying you are putting political interests aside to go to Washington and as the Maverick you are resolve the bailout issues. Surprisingly not even the media are biting on that piece of suspension of disbelief.
This is a serious issue, the bailout, but lets put things in perspective, McCain and Obama are not part of the committee that is hearing this, and they can contribute in their small part on the issues as Senators by voting when the time comes. This fantasy that McCain is concocting that he is the president already and above the minor details of debates, I am in awe of that kind of bullshittery. And the American people should be as well.
sorry had to get that out.
Not to devolve into a political thread, but I’m simply convinced that Non-Americans will never understand the odd/emotional style of American politics. The McCain backing out of a debate two days prior to the debate being perceived as a “maverick”(tm) move and not simple cowardice is baffling to me in the extreme.
Yeah America and americans must be pretty fucked up. Oh sorry, if my vocabulary isn’t as nice as rot or Kurts.
Yup. I’m sure it’s cowardice. Obviously. I mean McCain really has no idea what he’s talking about when it comes to National Security and foreign policy (the topic of Friday’s debate).
/sarcasm.
I’ll concede it might be a political move to look like a true leader or whatever, but I’m pretty sure McCain has no fear of taking on Obama in a foreign policy debate.
To be honest though, I’m so tired of debating and thinking about this. It’s been on cable news almost exclusively for the past 18 hours. I’m almost as tired of this as I am talking about comic books. I mean seriously… is it really that big of a deal? If McCain stops campaigning to go do nothing in Washington, do you really give a shit? I sure don’t. I’m not voting for either one of them, so what they do is of no concern to me.
What foreign policy can you have if you lack the funds to even pose a military threat? The Domestic affairs, the economy has to be the focus of debate on friday, and I think McCain doesn’t like that because he knows that is where he is the weakest.
but I’m fine putting the political issue of McCain’s opting out to bed, I just needed to say something because it pissed me off as a political stunt, not because it is a big deal in the scheme of things.
I find it strange that so many americans don’t want to vote. It just reinforces the idea that americans are fat, lazy and stupid, and only get off their asses to do anything when it affects them personally.
I guess I could be wrong (rare), but I’m pretty sure Friday’s debate is intended to focus on national security and foreign policy solely. Economy etc. will be in future debates.
Bill Clinton on ABC indicated that domestic crisis is in fact a threat to national security, and should be the topic of Fridays debate (well, if there is one at this point)
@ “I’m not voting for either one of them, so what they do is of no concern to me.”
are you going third party or sitting this one out? For a while I was saying I wasn’t going to vote this year but now I’m going for BHO. Palin/McCain’s freak show of a candidacy has driven me to the other side. I spent a week saying everyone was overreacting about Palin and now I pretty much can’t stand her. Has this woman uttered a single sentence in an interview that instills anyone with any confidence.
I said this on a right wing site I go to: The difference between Obama’s lack of experience and Palin’s is that Obama is actually running on his record, community organizer and all. Whereas Palin’s just making shit up. Reformer? Commander of the Alaskan National Guard? It’s just a bunch of lies.
Honestly, there’s so many rumors about her flying around, new ones popping up, old ones being debunked that I feel like I know less about her than I did a week ago.
And Andrew, I don’t think he’s afraid to debate Obama. But I think this is a cheap stunt and pretty much a fuck you to the electoral process. Also while I don’t think they’re afraid of Mccain vs Obama I do think Biden vs. Palin has them pretty nervous. In her scant media exposure her performance has been uniformly terrible. She’s going to come out a laughing stock. And since she’s basically carrying the ticket at this point that’s pretty bad for them.
And it’s mighty big of you to retract your past comments. Thank you.
Comment. Singular.
As for voting… Lieberman ’08 with Johnny Cash as VP.
I’d take a dead Johnny Cash as VP over Palin any day.
Lieberman?!? ugh. what does anyone see in that guy?
I wonder what books it would take for Sarah Palin to ban before the americans made a revolution. Apparently she wanted to ban all kinds of books in the past, and if she became president, I don’t see why she would stop. Actually this is an interesting question to the americans reading: What book would you fight for?
Curiously reductive Henrik. Banning books does nothing in the US. More people have probably read Catcher in the Rye and Satanic Verses for the ban/fatwa publicity than not. Doesn’t mean that anyone has understood them any better.
I do love the Graham Green debate in Donnie Darko though.
Plus Gov officialls don’t have the power to ban offensive material the same way in you socialist countries.
I’m not American, but I’d fight for the delightful global-malaise, sex tourism novel PLATFORM, by Michel Houellebecq. Well that and Maurice Sendack’s WHERE THE WILD THINGS ARE.
Orwell’s 1984 and Huxley’s Brave New World, that in essence describes the two regimes of tyranny operating today.
Lieberman: A thoughtful independent.
Palin: not a fan, but the book banning thing is left-wing exaggeration/bullshit:
http://snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp
yeah its bullshit, but the key is that Palin asked a “what if” scenario where certain books were banned which says that she is of the mind to even conceive of banning books in a public library.
Fair enough. But the whole country is running around saying that Palin bans (“burns” in some emails I’ve gotten and blogs I’ve read) books. It’s just not true. There are lots of misnomers about Obama too that bug me. Which is why I’m so tired of all this. I’ve followed politics very closely (almost as much as movies) for the last 8 years and over the past 2 weeks I’ve gotten fed-up. I just don’t care anymore. I’m gonna worry about myself from now on.
This weekend:
Choke
The Duchess
Miracle at St. Ana
I’m just tired of everyone seeing everything as black or white. I’ve always been a true independent and I can usually see both sides of any issue. But most people today are “this way or that way” with no “in between.” It’s sad and is tearing us apart. I won’t support it by voting for either one of these yahoos.
I would agree it is tearing your country apart… I mean the whole debate about this bailout… there ain’t no debate needed, the ship is sinking, it needs to be fixed. And still there is this partisan conflict. I suspect in the real-life version of Armageddeon the meteor would be hurtling toward Earth, the two sides will debate over how to procede and the meteor will hit, the end.
That said, I would say Obama is the least divisive candidate I can ever remember seeing (well with the exception of Kerry who would agree to anything). Obama always takes the high road in his conduct, and his platform is far more compromising then many Democrats would like.
Andrew, what the snopes article debunks is some email bullshit. One of those you get emailed from all the dumbest people you know.
But the “rumors” about a librarian she would refuse to remove offensive books and then being fired but reinstated after public outcry are not as easily dismissed.
There is a lot of liberal hysteria about Palin though. A friend of mine who volunteers for the obama campaign when on an impassioned to me about how Palin isn’t qualified because she changed colleges too much. I told him if he wants obama to win he should never mention too-much-college gate ever again.
Lieberman?! The guy who goes on and on about rap music and violent movies? The guy who wants to throw out the bill of rights everytime someone stubs their tow? The guy who thinks it’s bad to have an exit strategy in Iraq?
I guess it’s true he’s an independent.
Andrew, you are correct in that the partisan divide has become a parody of itself. Both sides screaming hysterically about how the other side is hysterical. And has everyone forgotten that 4 years ago the democrats wanted McCain on the Kerry ticket? He’s every liberal’s favorite republican but apparently now he’s Satan.
McCain was informed last week that even though it was the foreign policy/national security debate, that Lehrer intended to ask a number of economic questions.
McCain has admitted he doesn’t understand the economy, several times. Less now that its relevant of course. I absolutely do believe he is scared shitless of those questions, and will revert to careful talking points that will still seem as stupid and clueless as Palin’s Couric interview. Besides the political stunt of getting attention trying to look like the bailout savior, I think it was just a ‘Burn After Reading’ esque failed plan to try and postpone Palin’s debate, kill time while he figures out the political winds regarding the economy, brush up some more on things. it’s strategic and it backfired, and that’s about it.
“apparently now he’s Satan”
There’s a big fucking world of difference between electing someone and finding them a decent honorable person overall. I mean, I like Mike Huckabee a whole fucking lot. He’s a nice guy, he doesn’t sweat the small crap, he has a great sense of humor about himself and he’s more of a ‘maverick’ than McCain has been for several years. But if he was the Republican nominee there’d be very good obvious reasons to consider him ‘Satan’ for all intents and purposes.
Look, in a time when the Supreme court has several replacements about to be made, that’s reason alone for a lot of people to freak out over the pro-life candidate. Add the greater scrutiny of a national campaign and all the details emerge you may have never known. I didn’t know he voted against MLK’s holiday, I didn’t even know he was one of the Keating Five. And thats just the tip of the iceberg. There’s very good reasons for people to only realize now just how much dirt McCain has on him from his career.
I’ve been very focused on this campaign. I work in a newsroom, I can’t help it. I pick things up, positive and negative, on all sides. I don’t pretend Obama is a saint, but I am very much on his side because he’s a pragmatist and a level head, whereas McCain has shown himself to be erratic, reckless and uninformed. It’s as simple as that.
“I would say Obama is the least divisive candidate I can ever remember seeing (well with the exception of Kerry who would agree to anything).”
What I couldnt get in 04 was how Kerry was supposedly both a flip-flopper and the ‘most liberal member of the senate’ – you can’t be both. It’s like now how Obama is both supposedly a Muslim and a hardcore Christian who believes everything Jeremiah Wright says. It makes no sense.
“A friend of mine who volunteers for the obama campaign when on an impassioned to me about how Palin isn’t qualified because she changed colleges too much.”
I find her college thing relevant in the sense that she is being treated as if she’s as qualified or more than Obama because you can calculate X years of experience, never minding the quality of it. Obama graduated the top of his class at Harvard and led the Harvard Law review, taught constitutional law for 10 years. Palin has a broadcasting degree, skipped around schools. McCain finished 894th of 899 in his class. Biden, well Biden’s probably the worst student of all of them, actually, if this is relevant.
And thats just one angle of everything. It’s also about ideas, Obama has had to for a long time make his case that he’s up to speed, Palin got accepted by the base in days somehow, which I don’t get. She’s been in a bubble and been hidden, the McCain campaign is showing no confidence in her at all beyond symbolism. it’s actually quite offensive and sick, and the only thing I can do in response is laugh at the flubs and the parodies when they come along. It’s the only way to deal with a laughingstock scary choice of a candidate. Listen, the Green Party candidate in Canada is not taken seriously at all, but she has ideas and can stand up for herself any day of the week, is absolutely more qualified than Palin and she hasn’t done crap and won’t even win her local riding. She’s also not exactly easy on the eyes either.
All in all, its become theater in the States that I’ve become extremely moody watching it all play out. The outrage shifts. The media shockingly lately is the least worrisome element, they’re focusing on the serious stuff right now, and its Wall Street, the administration and the campaigns and their surrogates that are weirding me out.
Andrew, I can’t believe you’re not voting.
I would trade every vote I could ever make from now on to vote in the US election right now. It’s damn dire, it affects my country’s future more than our own next election does. And you’re in what is a sort-of-swing-state.
Goon, Andrew is voting by staying home (or voting for some ridiculous third party nonsense). He’s the republican base that McCain is counting on. Like many fox news spouting republican diehards Andrew would never consider voting democrat but he clearly realizes something is deeply wrong with the policies he’s been supporting the past 8 years. By abandoning their party concientious republicans are participating in the election.
I thought Andrew was a moderate, not a ‘foxbot’, but we’ve never got into it.
Either way, I’m not one to say people who dont vote have ‘no right to complain’ – you know that old cliche. But I do think that the complaints of the people who dont vote, and i mean ANY political complaints, that they’re both the same, or puppets, or this or that, are a million times whinier, and infinitely less sympathetic. I believe you have the right to not vote, and I believe its rude to say shut up, but i dont think its rude to stick a middle finger in their face and call them a pussy for not being able to recognize a difference between the two, take a couple fucking hours of your life to make some judgment of who will better serve you. its the simplest task you can do, and sure a hell of a lot of people are too uninformed to make a good judgment, but i respect Joe NRA Dey Took Our Jerbs Voter more than Captain Too Cool To Vote.
c/p debate thoughts
I actually really liked tonights debate. Lehrer was the best moderator I’ve seen this year, easily. McCain did better than I expected, but so did Obama. It’s obvious he’s a lot more comfortable against someone not in his own party, who he can demonstrate clear differences with. I think Obama looked more presidential for what thats worth, and considering this was supposed to be McCain’s strong suit…
by the expectations and visuals game, I say Obama won the debate.
by content alone, I’d call it about as close a draw as you could say.
Obama beat him on economic stuff though, and when the fact checks come out McCain will be in trouble for the Kissinger shit. Couric already pounced on him, with direct quotes from H.K. himself.
And thankfully I think I only heard ‘my friends’ once, and ‘change’ not even once. All in all definitely by all parties involved superior to anything from ’04. If this is a sign of the other debates to come (sans Palin/Biden) maybe this election season can come to an end with some dignity after all.
@73 comment by goon.
The whole green party comparison is a little strange. Canada doesn’t have a two party system. We have a four party system (1 is regional), plus a smattering of Independents. We have alot of different choices in Canada, so we can choose to ignore a party that has never elected an MP in the 30 years its been around. You have to pay attention to McPalbamo because they are they are the choices. Personaly I was angry they have buckled and included the greens in the debates. Now every party that can convince a MP to walk the floor gets to be in the debates? Wonder how much the Marijuana Party is salivating at that precedent.
@Andrew Please go vote. Go to your poling station and participate by spoiling you ballot. No going smacks of not caring. You do care…care that your choices suck. I don’t think your disillusioned with Democracy, just politics.
C’mon Andrew, be proxy for us Canadians. We’d take Obama up here given the two choices. Be CANADA, Andrew.
don’t tempt him, he could vote McCain out of spite. We are still up so long as he doesn’t vote
“Personaly I was angry they have buckled and included the greens in the debates.”
They’re polling higher than the Bloc, who will be at the debates. So they’ve never elected an MP, oh well, you’ve gotta start somewhere, and to me at this point in time they have more legitmacy than ever before. I actually like and have quite a bit of respect for May, though that thing of her changing her mind 10 times about that quote from The Agenda is very odd.
I don’t like Stephane Dion, I don’t think he could inspire water to stay wet, but we vote for our local ridings more than our leaders, and the local Liberal Party leader in Oakville is vastly superior to the other choices. If I was a single issue voter at all, the Conservatives copyright bill is what’s getting me out.
‘tempt him’
Andrew isn’t stupid. Strategically maybe if he was to vote McCain that wouldn’t be what I’d do, but whatever. Maybe I’m being naive, I guess my personal beliefs on the value of voting override my desire to see X person win.
Yes I’ll vote, but I’m still an undecided. If someone put a gun to my head today and said I have to vote for either McCain or Obama, I’d reluctantly choose Obama probably. The debate was almost a tie, with Obama having the slight edge in my opinion.
This is the last I’ll say on politics in this thread.
As you were.
This is both so very very strange, yet exactly why I love Ralph Nader.