80 response about Cinecast Episode 95 - Fcuking Amazing! »

1. 

   I wanted to note for DVD picks that at some point recently Delicatessen (Jeunet) was rereleased as a special edition, and i picked it up. havent watched it yet, but am looking forward to it.

   welp, you promised a new ep this week and you delivered. thanks. now i have something for my walk tomorrow.

   Comment by Goon — August 19, 2008
2. 

   PS Tristram Shandy absolutely sucks.

   Comment by Goon — August 19, 2008
3. 

   Shandy has it’s dull moments, but the laugh out loud parts make up for it.

   Comment by Andrew James — August 20, 2008
4. 

   Looks like I’ll be able to post more pictures of Miss Cruz next week as Elegy opens in Minneapolis. Choice.

   Comment by Andrew James — August 20, 2008
5. 

   Bumper music links fixed.

   Comment by Andrew James — August 20, 2008
6. 

   This whole italics thing is driving me crazy.

   Comment by Matt Gamble — August 20, 2008
7. 

   omg, Epic cast… I had to delete a bunch of stuff to make room for it on my ipod!

   Was a great show, lots of fun and energy. 10 tens were great!

   Comment by Shannon the Movie Moxie — August 20, 2008
8. 

   Italics thing is fixed!

   Comment by Marina Antunes — August 20, 2008
9. 

   i’m around 45 minutes in. this is one of the best RT eps of all time. Matt Gamble is the third heat. Get him in as often as you can.

   Comment by Goon — August 20, 2008
10. 

    Kurt seems almost intimidated by Matt at times. Seriously, Matt in this show, you come off exactly the way I fear I come off at times, hyperbolic to the extreme, shouting out obscenities in one extreme camp or the other on a subject, and never backing it up. It makes for good fun though, this is one show that needed a kick in the balls.

    Comment by Henrik — August 20, 2008
11. 

    Andrew did you just take a dump around the 1 hour mark? Cause I heard the toilet flush in the background.

    Comment by swarez — August 20, 2008
12. 

    Dogville discussion is good.

    Unfortunately I didn’t think Kurt really represents my feelings on the matter. I don’t see it as a shrill film at all. It’s not about what “this country is doing to her”. That’s just a misunderstanding of the film. The movie is not the political statement people think it is.

    Matt, are you sure you get his point. I don’t think you do. Von Trier uses unconventional lighting schemes through out his films. I guess you either go for it or you don’t. The lighting techique here is most likely him playing towards the limitations of the unwieldy medium he chose to work in. That’s not meant as an excuse just an explaination.

    I think Manderlay is the superior film. I think my love for Von Trier is similar to Henrik’s love for M. Night.

    Comment by Rusty James — August 20, 2008
13. 

    The lighting techique here is most likely him playing towards the limitations of the unwieldy medium he chose to work in.

    He’s not playing to limitations though, he’s showcasing excess in his lighting style and in his frequent splices. He is using multiple takes, and purposely moving the lighting setups in each take, then editing these multiple takes together throughout the course of a scene during post-production. Maybe others don’t notice it, but after years of projection work those splices make the film play like a stop-motion film with whirling lights to me. It’s a spastic mess. And when the rest of the film is setup to be such a minimal atmosphere, such massive post-production work seems decidedly disingenuous to me.

    But like I said on the podcast plenty of people love this movie and that’s fine. But I think the film is utter shit and am not going to be afraid to say it. Especially not to Kurt.

    Comment by Matt Gamble — August 20, 2008
14. 

    I don’t see Dogville as ’shrill’, its just um, weird, not only in its presentation, but because since von Trier wants to make a bluntly anti-american series of films, despite never being there, some things just come across as tacky and very false, but in a way i found entertaining.

    I throw myself in the Dogville love camp along with Kurt, but with caveats. I generally have liked von Trier’s work, but with Dogville its a mix of genuine appreciation as well as love in spite of problems. So I was able to listen to Matt vs. Kurt laughing, as I somehow agreed with both of them on the topic. So while I couldn’t fairly RATE Dogville with my complicated outlook on it, I do actually OWN it. Its a long enough movie that I havent popped it in in a good while, but maybe this show will make me do that. I do love the ending though, its just kind of ‘what the hell’ and the absolute perfect song choice just joins in right afterward.

    I was working at a Rogers Video in 2004 when this came out on DVD, and I can tell you flat out that this was the single most returned video with complaints in my entire run there. “I rented what I thought was a movie, not a fucking play” “This was a filmed set. Its a play, its not a movie” - every complaint was that it wasnt an actual movie, and I actually dared argue against them that its simply a strangely formatted movie. Yeah, I wasn’t the best movie store employee if someone dared complain about anything looking for their money back. The only other movies that received common complaints at the time were “Elephant”, “Gerry” and “Thirteen”.

    Comment by Goon — August 20, 2008
15. 

    “Kurt seems almost intimidated by Matt at times.”

    I tend to agree. I mean, Kurt sees enough movies that Andrew has not that Kurt is able to go on and make long Grampa Simpson tangents describing them. With Matt there who clearly has seen some of these things he mentions, its like there’s a wall there to actually slap him back and interrupt (which Andrew never does), and then it helps Andrew out more to be the mediator asking questions. If Gamble and Andrew were in teh room together as well, is that what gets Andrew’s presence more obvoiusly there? Being aware of someone physically may make one feel the need to keep up.

    That may sound insulting, as Andrew had definitely been talking more in shows over the last few eps, but either way, again, Gamble’s presence, like the addition of Greg on FilmJunk, just brought a little something extra out of everyone in the room, made the show that much better. Big marks for this one.

    Comment by Goon — August 20, 2008
16. 

    Kurt seems almost intimidated by Matt at times.

    I’m pretty sure it was a combination of Kurt laughing at me and simply letting me hang myself.

    I don’t think much of our ganging up on Andrew made the actual show. We must have had at least 15 minutes of talking about Midnight Run alone and lecturing Andrew for not having watched it that was off-air.

    Comment by Matt Gamble — August 20, 2008
17. 

    I love the description “Grampa Simpson tangent”. Even though I’m not a big fan of The Simpsons, it’s a perfect analogy.

    Comment by Henrik — August 20, 2008
18. 

    Let’s just say that when Kurt is 65, there’s going to be a number of upset children wondering why the answer to “Can I have some candy” is a lecture on the lighting in “Paths of Glory” vis a vis “Patton”

    Comment by Goon — August 20, 2008
19. 

    Far be it to be intimidated by the tour-de-force Matt ravings. When it comes to Dogville and Blair Witch 2 it’s been years since I saw the movies. Trying to come up with specific examples and scenes to hang an argument on is more difficult.

    It was fun though. I tend to be the forcefull bully on andrew, and it was nice to see that Matt wasn’t having any of my usual shit, infact, he want to sling more of it faster.

    I had a huge grin on my face sparring with Gamble. I agree it was a good show with him willing to Tango and Tangent.

    Comment by Kurt — August 20, 2008
20. 

    Cinecast Erroratum - Rebecca Hall played the Christian Bale character’s wife in The Prestige, not Hugh Jackman character’s wife.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — August 21, 2008
21. 

    Fantastic show, fellas, and adding Matt really brought another dimension to it. It was just like The View!

    Comment by Jonathan B. — August 21, 2008
22. 

    I’m only partway through the marathon but I have to say, I’ve never laughed so much at either the show or the comments. The View, Kurt’s lecture to children at 65. Priceless. Completely priceless.

    Comment by Marina Antunes — August 21, 2008
23. 

    Matt the ending of Dogville is the fucking movie, its a brilliantly laid punchline, and is something that Von Trier is very good at (I also think the ending of Dear Wendy is great too). Dogville is about the gap between theory and practice, about having some ethical pretense and then actually living by it. Nicole Kidman’s character embodies a naivete about the world that harkens to the Americana values (there is a reason for the final montage) and these lofty ideas about how things should work eventually reaches a tipping point and she says fuck it. and so much of america today is fuck it. Its satire, its supposed to funny, and it is, but in the humour there is something biting being said about how schizophrenic the american identity is, about where it comes from and how it behaves in the present day. Von Trier got a lot of shit for this satire, especially because he has never set foot in america, and somehow the ‘idea’ of america needs to be understood on american soil. I think it is an attack on the idea not a people, but the idea that they are fixated on, that they reassure themselves with when they do heinous things. Von Trier has just as much a right and an insight to that ‘idea’ because its right there out in the open, in the rhetoric of many, in the tv shows of bygone days, in Michael Bay apple pie rah rah self-congratulations, its an idea that exists, rightly or wrongly, and one which is adopted by people rightly or wrongly. Naive simplistic ethics about how the world works, america founded by puritans, and as George Carlin so accurately describes a bunch of slave owners who wanted to be free.

    Dogville is a classic. Manderlay was almost as good, but I do agree it does not veer too far from the satire employed in Dogville.

    only halfway through the show, but great stuff, love what you bring to the show Matt but you are infuriatingly wrong a lot of the time

    Comment by rot — August 21, 2008
24. 

    I got a bunch of money back from shipping my broken region free player to China so I went on a spending spree about 2 weeks ago. I ordered the following Johnnie To:

    Final Justice
    Running Out of Time 1 & 2
    Heroic Trio Series

    and

    Sparrow

    Once YesAsia has Sparrow they will be shipping them all too me!

    Wizard of Gore played the night before TAD at the Bloor last year. I decided to go to Lust, Caution instead of it. I’m regretting the choice as my viewing of LC was way shitty due to the audience.

    Comment by John Allison — August 21, 2008
25. 

    just finished the show.

    notes/arguments:

    As I was listening to Matt’s story, I was at University and Adelaide in Toronto killing time. I walked by Ted Danson, I noticed him in advance. I was crossing the street and simply nodded and said ‘hey’ and he smiled. I guess he’s here for… TIFF? I don’t know, no idea, maybe Steenburgen is the one with something going on. Whatever. He looked classy somehow.

    Man on Wire is also my no. 1 of the year so far. Kurt’s said it all already.

    Anything more I could say about Tropic Thunder was said by Jay on this week’s FJ podcast.

    Top 10 lists:
    The more I think about it, the more I think most movies about making movies are shit. I don’t even like the Player, its just one of many Altman movies I simply don’t like (and again, that includes Short Cuts. I know I’m in the minority, but that movie is shit, especially compared to Magnolia). You could fill a million Aero bars with the nothing contained in that movie.

    Oh, and I want to read the Blair Witch 2 report. You know, when I saw it in theater I didn’t outright hate it either. I knew it was awful, but it was fun to watch - it has an amazing bad decision per minute ratio, which like Showgirls and only a handful of other bad films, starts to make you question what flops on purpose and what was a true error.

    Comment by Goon — August 21, 2008
26. 

    Having listened to the rest of the show, the blatant hero worship disgusted me, but I liked the top 10 lists.

    Comment by Henrik — August 21, 2008
27. 

    @ “Dogville is about the gap between theory and practice, about having some ethical pretense and then actually living by it.”

    I think it’s about new testament forgiveness vs. old testament wrath. The final scene is obviously revelations.

    Watch it with that in mind and it will jump out at you. Manderlay is about Christs thousand year reign on Earth. The third one will be about Jesus’s confrontation with the AntiChrist (alluded too in the film).

    Comment by Rusty James — August 21, 2008
28. 

    I never got to finish my thoughts on Blair Witch One because round two of the battle started up (which, btw I agree with Kurt. It’s not even worth discussing since BW2 is so awful).

    BW1 though was fun the first time in the theater (partly because I was nieve enough at the time to believe it was real. The second time I watched it though (lights off in a darkened basement), I hated it. Just a bunch of annoying teenagers swearing and screaming at each other for an hour and then the closing 20 “scary” minutes aren’t really all that scary or compelling.

    And HENRIK, I see your point about the hero worship, but I have to admit that when I meet people I truly respect for the craft (and the Coens go WAY beyond respect for me), I’d be pretty fucking excited too. Which reminds me, why exactly didn’t I get a call Matt?

    Comment by Andrew James — August 21, 2008
29. 

    Andrew? You thought BW1 was real while watching it? Seriously? You are open to mocking. I thought only the most casual of film folks fell for that stunt.

    Has no effect on the quality of that movie though. Has a lot to say about the arrogance of people vs. nature. Overconfidence. The dissolving of that confidence and an ode (fantasy/sci-fi/occult) to the unknown as a capper. Any fan of genre films should be on board with that. The documentary structure and marketing hoopla were just icing on the cake.

    The ‘annoying and whining’ that people complain about probably runs counter to the same folks often complaining that hollywood or indie-american films don’t play ‘real enough’ . Folks. It’s hard to have it both ways.

    BW1 = worthy of praise
    BW2 was an ill advised cash-grab from the get-go, and the debacle with the director and the studio may have stunted the director hijacking the film to his purposes (where Matt sees the skeleton of that and calls it gold). I’d have to revisit it, it has been many years, to properly debate the film, as I”m not as passionate about the thing as Matt. I just write it off as I do the thousands of inferior and ill-advised sequels.

    Comment by Kurt — August 22, 2008
30. 

    Rusty, its called the America trilogy not the Testament trilogy so I think it is more likely that the protagonist is representative of a kind of american mentality. That said, the mentality has a lot to do with religious presumptions of how to conduct oneself, and so the testament layer may actually exist too.

    Comment by rot — August 22, 2008
31. 

    Furthermore, I think the nice thing about this particular trilogy is how it gets at the difference between the way the US projects itself at the world vs. the way that projection is in itself processed by the rest of the world.

    (Of course, the rest of the world being Von Trier in this case).

    I once heard the saying that the united states sees itself as superman, but the rest of the world see it as batman.

    Obviously, Von Trier is tackling things,in Dogville, a bit more in-depth (particularly foreign policy, corporate imperialism stuff) than the facile batman/superman thing.

    Comment by Kurt — August 22, 2008
32. 

    “Has a lot to say about the arrogance of people vs. nature. Overconfidence. The dissolving of that confidence and an ode (fantasy/sci-fi/occult) to the unknown as a capper. Any fan of genre films should be on board with that. The documentary structure and marketing hoopla were just icing on the cake.”

    I don’t really care what it has to say. If it doesn’t say it in a compelling way then the point becomes moot - not to mention that theme is prevalent in a lot of movies. Worthy of praise maybe for its breakthrough film making technique and marketing scheme (I certainly wouldn’t mind putting a $50,000 film together and then making millions from it), but other films have done similar things since and they’ve done it better.

    Comment by Andrew James — August 22, 2008
33. 

    I have a new crush. His name is Matt. Mostly ’cause he rocks but also ’cause he put one of my favourite flicks, the first one I ever say on the big screen, in his top 10 list. #5. F/X. Plus he gets kudos for having Blair Witch Project - the movie that single handed scared me away from camping for ever - at #1.

    Excellent show guys. A bit of a marathon but the added voice made for a fun show. I’m not sure I’ve ever laughed that much listening to the show!

    Comment by Marina Antunes — August 22, 2008
34. 

    yes Matt is dreamy.

    Good show, but damb is it long. Its taken me most of the week to work through it.

    Comment by leeny — August 22, 2008
35. 

    Nice. Matt has fangirls.

    Comment by Marina Antunes — August 22, 2008
36. 

    The show should never be that LOOOONNNNG again, very much a catch up show due to Andrew & I getting back on track. Things should be back to the normal 1h45 length as we get back on track.

    Having said that….TIFF is up and coming…

    Comment by kurt — August 22, 2008
37. 

    If it doesn’t say it in a compelling way then the point becomes moot

    I’m calling bullshit on this one. I don’t know how anyone can claim the original wasn’t compelling. It was a cultural zeitgeist for goodness sake. People came out of the woodwork to see this film, and plenty of them had the shit scared out of them. Hell, you even admit that you thought it was real. How is that not an argument favoring it being compelling?

    Indie films with minimal distribution don’t crack $100 million if the damn thing isn’t compelling people to get their ass out to arthouse theaters.

    Comment by Matt Gamble — August 22, 2008
38. 

    “Indie films with minimal distribution don’t crack $100 million if the damn thing isn’t compelling people to get their ass out to arthouse theaters.”

    Agreed but Blair Witch didn’t just play arthouse theaters. It played EVERYWHERE.

    Comment by Marina Antunes — August 22, 2008
39. 

    @ “Rusty, its called the America trilogy not the Testament trilogy”

    Have you ever seen the Idiots Michael? The film is part jest part autobiography all confession.

    To take the title as the diffinative statement on the work is a bit naive.

    Comment by Rusty James — August 22, 2008
40. 

    It had a fairly slow roll out here in the States and never went truly wide. First week it played on 27 screens and grossed ~$1.5 million. Second weekend the screen count remained relatively flat and it pulled in another $3 million. It wasn’t until the third weekened when the studio realized it was a phenomenon that it was pushed wide to 1000 screens and made $30 million. 1000 screens isn’t a very wide release, as today you can see even mediocre mainstream films top 2500 screens.

    I know here in Minneapolis on opening weekend it sold out almost every show it played at the 900 seat Uptown Theater and the line circled an entire city block. I’m fairly certain it still holds the record of the biggest weekend gross for that theater in its 100 year history.

    Comment by Matt Gamble — August 22, 2008
41. 

    Perhaps the distribution was different up here. I saw it opening weekend at one of the big multiplexes in the burbs. The theater was pretty full but not sold out.

    Comment by Marina Antunes — August 22, 2008
42. 

    It was compelling enough the first time through, but the rewatch value on that one (at least for me) is for shit. I never want to watch that movie again. It will be boring and pointless. Without some rewatch value, I could never put a film like that very high on a best of list.

    I only thought it was real because that’s what everyone was saying at the time. I was a naive college student. But even then on the ride home we brought up several issues in the car convincing us on our own that the idea that thing was real was pretty much bullshit.

    But keeping the stars out of the limelight as long as they did helped make the appearance of reality a bit more convincing.

    Comment by Andrew James — August 22, 2008
43. 

    I’ve seen it a couple of times and I still get goose bumps. For me, it’s a really effective horror movie. And the closing shot is GOLD.

    Comment by Marina Antunes — August 22, 2008
44. 

    Here’s your closing shot:

    

    Comment by Andrew James — August 22, 2008
45. 

    LOL

    I was going to praise your web searching skills since I’ve cruised YouTube for months looking for the final few minutes of footage.

    But that works for me. Good god that woman is gorgeous.

    Comment by Marina Antunes — August 22, 2008
46. 

    @ “I only thought it was real because that’s what everyone was saying at the time.”

    Andrew, you are the only person in the WORLD who didn’t get the memo. Sand Nomads in Mogadishu were in on the joke. It’s the type of thing your midwestern auntie thinks she’s really cool for being in on after she saw it on Access Hollywood.

    I loved Blair Witch in the theater but have never felt the need to revisit it. Some films just don’t have a lot of rewatch value but that’s okay.

    Blair Witch: Back 2 Da Hood is notable because it’s one of the most inadvisable sequels ever and the director is an interesting choice. Worth a watch for novelty value.

    Comment by Rusty James — August 22, 2008
47. 

    @Rusty,

    I’m not taking the title as the only evidence of it being an allegory of america, my God the final montage is clips of americana to the Bowie song ‘Young Americans’, I don’t see how more obvious it has to be that thematically the story is about America, that the choices that Grace (?) make are comments on American behavior (albeit as Kurt noted from an outsiders perspective). Dogville itself begins as an idealized small town America riddled with cliches.
    That said, the testament allegory is a bonus.

    Comment by rot — August 22, 2008
48. 

    as for Blair Witch count me as one of the people who loved it when it came out, and genuinely found it scary. Never understood the backlash.

    Comment by rot — August 22, 2008
49. 

    @ “the final montage is clips of americana to the Bowie song ‘Young Americans’, I don’t see how more obvious it has to be”

    misdirection.
    What statement do you think the film is making about America? Someone once told me the movie is about imigration. Well I don’t see how Grace makes a better stand in for imigrants than for Christ.

    Comment by Rusty James — August 23, 2008
50. 

    I just finished the wire. Sad it was over, I decided to go buy a comedy from the cheapo bin at the grocery store. I decided on the “loved it when i was a teenager” comedy Airheads, which I watched tonight, and lo and behold, the guy who plays Norman (Carcetti’s advisor) on the wire is one of the supporting players in Airheads. Full circle.

    Comment by Goon — August 23, 2008
51. 

    The films (Dogville and Manderlay) are essentially satirical using the tension between American idealism and American reality as the crux of the narrative, and Grace personifies the idealism at odds with the complex realities of the America she inhabits. The statement it is making is the one I original said, the gap between theory and practice is lost on the American idea, it believes in the notion of willing something into being whether or not it is even possible or desirable. Grace fights impediment upon impediment to her goals and with Lars razor sharp wit, his ’solution’ for the american idea is to say fuck it, and do whatever you want anyway by sheer force. Immigration is an aspect of this larger theme of theory vs practice, its an aspect of American history, and there is a lot of rhetoric about it to play with. Christianity can be inferred as well only because America has puritanical roots, and it plays into this larger mosaic of what America is in distinction from what it thinks it is.

    Comment by rot — August 23, 2008
52. 

    random: reading the Watchmen and thoroughly enjoying it and this is probably the first graphic novel I have read. I remember someone, maybe Matt, was recommending essential reads in this medium… what were they again?

    Is Black Hole worth reading?

    Comment by rot — August 23, 2008
53. 

    for graphic novels, while I’m no expert, I highly recommend Persepolis and Maus - Maus especially is widely respected and considered essential reading.

    Comment by Goon — August 23, 2008
54. 

    Maus is the best one. From Hell is close.

    Comment by Henrik — August 24, 2008
55. 

    I see “THE WIRE” Players pop up everwhere. Commissioner Barel is the bar owner in My Blueberry Nights. Senator “Sheeeeee-it” was a divorce client in Enchanted (sadly, that movie doesn’t let him play out that particular verbal styling), and Lt. Carver is Johnnie Rico’s lieutenant when he takes over the ‘roughnecks’ in the last third of Starship Troopers. Oh, and Herc has a small role in feature film version of Miami Vice. (that’s off the top of my head)

    Comment by kurt — August 24, 2008
56. 

    Cedric Daniels is a mystery character on Lost now.

    Comment by rot — August 24, 2008
57. 

    I should have started with Stringer Bell (Idris Elba) who is both in 28 Weeks Later… and the upcoming RocknRolla. I hope that actor (along with the fellow who plays OMAR - also seen in Gone Baby Gone and the upcoming THE ROAD) gets more feature film roles.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — August 24, 2008
58. 

    finally saw Tropic Thunder and Matt you are on crack. There was more strained comedy in Tropic Thunder than in Pineapple Express, sometimes it hit the mark but a lot of the time it missed. I mean all in all it is a good enough comedy but nowhere near Hot Fuzz or Pineapple Express.

    Now that the summer is over the stand outs for me were

    Pineapple Express
    Dark Knight
    Wanted

    The year of the suck continues… this TIFF line-up looks unusually weak but I guess I should see the films first.

    Comment by rot — August 24, 2008
59. 

    “The year of the suck continues”

    Huh? I think this year has had more standouts in the theatre (Funny Games US, Children & Parents) than last year did for me. Definitely more than last year had at this point.

    Comment by Henrik — August 24, 2008
60. 

    I have a feeling you are alone Henrik, if you think 2008 has been a better year for cinema than 2007. That may change by December. But I understand your previous comment you are saying Jan-Aug 2008 has seen more quality releases than Jan-Dec. 2007? Oi.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — August 24, 2008
61. 

    I must have missed all the greatness.

    Comment by Henrik — August 24, 2008
62. 

    I would highly recommend Black Hole. Maus and From Hell are excellent as well and also Invisibles (or anything by Grant Morrison). James Strumm is a lesser known name that I’m a big fan of.

    Daniel Clowes is perhaps the greatest talent working in comics. Edging out Alan Moore only becaue Clowes is a penciler and writer.

    Funny Games US? Really? Maybe if I hadn’t seen the original.

    Comment by Rusty James — August 24, 2008
63. 

    Well I consider them the same movie, I just put the US in the title because Haneke did. But maybe Funny Games US could actually be called the better film, because it’s directed towards the appropriate audience.

    Comment by Henrik — August 24, 2008
64. 

    You know Henrik, most countries love their onscreen violence, not just the US. Look at China’s history of wuxia films. Look at some of the crazy violent stuff out of Russia lately.

    I know that Haneke has said that the remake was made in part because Americans won’t read subtitles, and his original funny games was aimed at US film culture, but the more I think about it, the more I think it is simply everywhere. Given the US tends to be more puritanical when it comes to sex, and does tend to dominate world pop culture more than any other country, but I think if say FRANCE was dominant, you’d still see a lot of violence in mainstream cinema.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — August 24, 2008
65. 

    Maybe I should say MOST appropriate audience. I didn’t mean to suggest it was the only appropriate audience.

    Comment by Henrik — August 24, 2008
66. 

    I don’t know, when I think of the most disturbing violence, no violent American film I’ve ever seen can stand up against Hentai. Urotsukidoji:Legend of the Overfiend probably has anything else I’ve ever seen beat, perhaps now or ever. Tentacle rape > torture porn

    Comment by Goon — August 24, 2008
67. 

    Yea, the Japanese know what they are doing when it comes to the extreme. Just ask Mr. Miike and Mr. Tsukomoto.

    Funny, I saw Legend of the Overfiend in a rep cinema years ago in Waterloo, Ontario. Crazy.

    Comment by kurt — August 24, 2008
68. 

    We already discussed this, but what I take issue with with american cinema, is not the disturbing violence, but the undisturbing violence. Like in The Dark Knight when the joker is slamming against tables, punched in the face repeatedly and kicked around without any effect. It’s dishonest, and the problem is that people don’t go “I can’t do violence, so I’ll have to find another way” they go “I can’t do violence, so I’ll pretend violence and lie my way through it”. I hate that.

    Comment by Henrik — August 24, 2008
69. 

    I don’t think that is a uniquely american thing, the ‘undisturbing violence’ - Any countries action movies do not dwell on the full effect of the simplest violent act. Thrillers/Dramas/etc. (occasionally horror) handle this better, both in the United States and other cinemas.

    Comment by Kurt — August 25, 2008
70. 

    “Like in The Dark Knight when the joker is slamming against tables, punched in the face repeatedly and kicked around without any effect. It’s dishonest”

    Tex Avery would have aborted you.

    Comment by Goon — August 25, 2008
71. 

    But Goon. Henrik doesn’t dig on those squiggly drawings that move around on the screen. To quaint for him. Especially the Japanese ones…

    

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — August 25, 2008
72. 

    What’s Tex Avery?

    The problem with animation is that it’s exaggerated. It works best when it’s operatic in scope and drama (Prince of Egypt, The Lion King).

    Comment by Henrik — August 26, 2008
73. 

    I mean if we’re talking animated violence, Road Runner is insanely violent and portrays none of the consequences. But since it’s drawn the authenticity of it is gone right from the beginning, so you can get away with anything. I mean an animated snuff film would hardly be anywhere near the experience of an actual snuff film. I don’t care about violence in animation, I don’t care about dishonesty in a world where everything is in primary colors, or animals talk or whatever other outlandish elements that forced it to be animated in the first place.

    Comment by Henrik — August 26, 2008
74. 

    I stand by my witty slam.

    Comment by Goon — August 26, 2008
75. 

    Henrik. Tex Avery was one of the great Warner/Studio animators during the 40s-70s. Creditted with creating the stable of Looney Tunes characters (Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, etc.) Also, Red Hot Riding Hood, being one of his edgier classics, was taken as a starting point for the Jim Carrey movie, THE MASK (the character being a gigantic Tex Avery fan).

    Avery did insanely violent and sexually suggestive stuff in his animated shorts within the constraints of his times.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tex_Avery

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — August 26, 2008
76. 

    @ “Funny Games US could actually be called the better film, because it’s directed towards the appropriate audience.”

    Typical socialist presumptuousness. The film exists to lecture the brutish Americans for their inappropriate movie watching. We need to learn the right reasons for watching violence.

    In any case, there’s no such thing as an animated snuff film. A snuff film is where the people on screen are actually killed.

    Comment by Rusty James — August 26, 2008
77. 

    Not only Americans, everybody, but I think America is the appropriate place to start.

    Comment by Henrik — August 26, 2008
78. 

    I’d argue Eddie Campbell is the most talented comic creator working today. From Hell isn’t great simply because Moore is writing it, but because Campbell is probably the most talented illustrator he has ever worked with. As an added bonus Campbell’s own books are fantastic.

    All of Rusty’s suggestions are great. And while I prefer Morrisson in smaller doses (We3 & The Filth for starters) he is a fantastic writer. If you like him be sure to read Warren Ellis, Garth Ennis and Ben Templesmith’s books. I highly recommend Ellis/Templesmith’s Fell. It’s fantastic stuff, that unfortunately, they only write every other month or so. Ellis is really focused in his storytelling, and Templesmith’s artwork is fucking amazing. He’s doing some really groundbreaking stuff with his inking and coloring, and he’s a pretty good writer as well.

    Comment by Matt Gamble — August 26, 2008
79. 

    The artwork in From Hell is amazing. I think that The Killing Joke is extraordinarily beautiful as well though, I come back to that more often to look at the pictures than to read the story.

    Comment by Henrik — August 26, 2008
80. 

    I’ve read some of Eddie Campbell’s solo work. I’m impressed with the artistry but his books dont grab me the way Clowes’ does. I get immersed in Clowes’ world.

    Ghost World the movie is a travesty.

    Comment by Rusty James — August 27, 2008

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