As much as Lady in the Water is an advancement in bad filmology I’d still have to give the edge to The Happening as his worst. If only because its’ another opportunity to tell you people you’re all crazy.

Nolan’s hard to say. Best film is maybe Prestige and I guess I’d agree that Batman Begins is his worst. I loved it in the theater but I don’t feel like it’s held up very well.
It’s hard to compare those types of films to something like the Following though.

I like both versions of Insomnia. They’re both excellent films. And an interesting lesson in the difference between Al Pacino on low simmer and Stellan Skarsgard on angry-nutbar simmmer).

I have seen all of Shyamalan’s films from The Sixth Sense onwards. Lady in the Water is UNDOUBTEDLY his worst (what a terrible film) but The Village ain’t far behind (and The Happening…well you know my feelings about that one). I LOVE Unbreakable, quite like Signs and really like The Sixth Sense. I sincerely hope he hasn ‘t completely lost his game though, the last few gos have NOT been good to him:P

They are certainly dark, angry little film that aim to really mess with the audience during viewing.

And I also think that Nikola Tesla should have been more in The Prestige, I loved him on screen.

But I keep comparing TDK to Batman Begins (probably his worst film), and everything is better. So I don’t complain about a weak love story, I give them props for taking a shit property, and turning it watchable.

I think it was maybe a combination of both with Batman Begins. Holmes is a crap actress (why the HELL they cast her in the first place is totally beyond me) but it was also the screenplay that was to blame too. Begins is a film I love to death in spite of it’s flaws – one major one being the screenplay and how cheesy it is sometimes eg. the scene where Rachel slaps Bruce:P However I think TDK improves on it in pretty much every way (not taking any of my love away for BB), which was the aim they said. Nolan said something along the lines of, “Why make the sequel if you’re not going to do it better?” He certainly did in my books.

So, Kurt, what do you think is Nolan’s best? The Prestige? I personally still think Memento (which is also easily in my top 20 films of all time). Any film that can tell it’s story backwards and make it work is a winner in my book. And of course Guy Pierce is fantastic in it.

Back to the Harvey/Rachel thing in The Dark Knight. They never, ever sold Wayne/Rachel in Batman Begins either. While many would blame the actress Katie Holmes, I think it was also the pretty shoddy screenplay of Batman Begins. Certainly it was one of the few things that were not ‘fixed’ in The Dark Knight. Maggie Gyllenhaal is a much better actress, and gives the assistant D.A. a bit more sass, but ultimately the script just glosses over any real intimacy/love/feelings between Dent and Dawes or Wayne and Dawes, it merely tells you, tells you, tells you. Bad filmmaking, that.

And yeah that was a great aspect to the film, the fact that you know another rivalry (albeit not in the same field) is going on at the same time as the one we’re concentrating on.

“The real Edison/Tesla conflict was apparently pretty nasty.”

Of course it would be:P Think of what they were trying to invent and claim as their own!:P Now where would we be without THAT?:P

But. The fact that how it is done is actually incredibly marvellous and powerful and ‘strange’ adds to the craziness of the film.

And I really, really love David Bowie’s Nicola Tesla who I wish was in the film more actually.

@Kurt,

With The Prestige a lot of the people get too hung up on the twist, it’s not the WHOLE point of the movie. They seem to forget to mention all of the other fantastic elements – cinematography, tone, acting etc – and just say, “I saw the twist coming”. When you think about the twist actually, even though it might have been a bit easy to see coming, when you REALLY think about it it’s actually bordering on genius. Not just for the outcome of it but all the elements that make it up (kind of like a magic trick in general) ie. the focus and determination it would take for – SPOILER AHEAD – two brothers to live one single life and one having to sacrifice himself for the other. Just brilliant stuff.

actually you make a good point about Rachel and Dent, in retrospect it wasn’t as convincing as it probably should have been.

However I would still hold it MUCH higher than you do Kurt (still rating it 5/5, although I know you hate star ratings:P) and even some of the weaknesses don’t hold me back from giving it that. It’s just so great to see a film in such a genre have so many unusual and unexpected elements, I really hope it continues from here on out.

This may be a bit controversial, but I think The Prestige is better because it is bloodier and more personal than The Dark Knight which is more the battle for Gotham’s (and hence society at large) soul.

The prestige is more on the individual level, but it still has (and I love this aspect) the nature of when science is on the cusp of looking like magic. And the nature of what an individual can handle before the shut down or rebel against the ‘awesomeness’ of the unknown (barely known) aspects of nature. I liked that one of the recurring story elements is that in order to progress one has to really get their hands dirty and make some particularly nasty sacrifices. Personally, I’m not going to make those sacrifices myself, and (often, but not always) I watch movies to go places that I’d per personally unwilling (or unable) to go.

The Harvey Dent / Rachel Dawes relationship wasn’t sold, it was simply told to the audience. A couple scenes with them holding hands isn’t enough to really make me believe. Contrast this with Naomi Harris and Jamie Foxx in Miami Vice, where their sex-scene had such a level of intimacy and emotional grace-notes.

I actually got more of an emotional kick from the heavy handed emotional bits in Hancock.

That still doesn’t stop TDK from being a very, very good film, NOT a super-duper-bestest-film-ever great one in my book, but very, very good and I think a high water mark for the superhero film.

@Kurt,

I would regard it as the other way around – The Dark Knight is better than The Prestige, but marginally. Both of them have such class and sophistication about them, which makes TDK all the better for me because you don’t usually see that with comic book films. I just love, like I said before, the pessimistic outlook it has; they definitely nailed the feel of what it SHOULD have been. I agree, Kurt, that it is reminiscent of the feel of Fincher’s work (particularly Se7en and Zodiac) and the ideas (of The Joker) are similar to Tyler Durden’s in Fight Club. Do you think that was Nolan’s intention?

@Rusty James,

I think you nailed it with your comparison to Heat. That IS the very reason why I can watch that film (and now TDK) over and over again, because of it’s sprawling nature. In my opinion that’s the best way to tell a crime tale ie. have lots of accompanying elements with no real centre stage or main character.

@Stump – The way The Dark Knight puts its thematic content up front and center (perhaps a bit too front an center at times), and it gives the entire ecosystem of Gotham to let the thing play out. I loved that Batman felt like just another ensemble player in this film – and that Christian Bale is only so-so while in the suit (that voice modulator thingy undercuts the menace for me) is easily forgivable because there are so many other interesting characters and situations. And I don’t really need realism or believability if the film is engaging me on some sort of mental level. While TDK isn’t exactly a mensa-workout (it tends to underscore things quite heavily actually), it was refreshingly sticky for a comic book flick.

And it is the grim view of humanity that reminds me of David Fincher’s work. Both the frailty of some folks, and the anarchic yet convoluted wiles of the killers (Zodiac, John Doe, etc).

All that being said, I sat down with THE PRESTIGE late last night and I think that is a darker more interesting take on things. I thought the period was richer than Gotham’s Chicago look, and while that film also wears a lot of its thematic content on its sleeve, it also plays wonderfully with how far people are willing to go for what they initially think is the reason, but have other reasons buried in the psyche. I’d say that THE PRESTIGE is a better film than THE DARK KNIGHT (albeit marginally).

Now I loved The Dark Knight, and it knocked my socks off in IMAX, but I think the PRESTIGE gave me a greater sense of Wonder, especially the Tesla/Colorado Springs portions of the film, and I loved the temerity (and dark human outlook) of the final act of that film, the fact that it’s revelation is more horrifying than wonderful is a testament of that films dark vision.

No way has Brian Singer ever directed a film as good as Dark Knight. Not even close.

I like the route TDK takes: A-E-D-B-A-E-D-C-B-A-F

And I can totally see why you question the unbelievable stuff, but for me, it entered my mind for about a second and then it was gone and I was able to just go with it. The question is why was I able to go with it. Was it the characters? Did Nolan do something to distract me away from it or was I so engrossed in the story that I just didn’t care?

Either way, TDK works on many levels.

But just to be clear, I’ll likely be one of the few (if not the only) guys to not have TDK make my year end top ten list.

The discussion comparing HellboyII and TDK is interesting. Kurt is so far off. TDK is so over-inflated, sprawling. Kind of a mess; not a huge mess, but definitely not very tight. The lead actor performs a little on the weak side as well. I don’t buy the “more lived-in” thing that Andrew mentioned – a movie needs to be focused…the Hong Kong sequence drags the story down. It doesn’t feel like it drags the story, because it’s fully of exciting, well shot action scenes, but it does nothing to advance the story…

Why is the not-believable stuff ok? It’s not ok to me. I can’t go with it. I questioned it. Maybe you didn’t, Kurt, but I did!! …

I kind of wish the Fincher comparisons would stop. There are superficial tonal similarities, but these are very different filmmakers. Fincher elevated himself a while back with Fight Club; Nolan still hasn’t done it…

When you guys talk about this movie going places no other superhero movie has gone, it seems like you’re only referring to where it goes thematically and tonally, and just disregarding the art of filmmaking. In terms of how well the movie was made, talking about film craft, this is only decent, not really that great. I’d say Spiderman II and Hellboy II, and possibly X-Men II and IronMan did a better job at putting together tight, cohesive stories with consistent themes, strong acting, fun action, etc.