94 response about Cinecast 83 - ‘Tis the Season »

1. 

   not to hijack this, to make it about the nameless website your debate raged on, Kurt, but I am in total agreement with you. Regarding censorship, things are relative too, I do not mind a bit of name-calling, I can handle that… there tends to be a natural point where all discussion breaks down and things work themselves out without a moderator to decide what people can tolerate.

   Henrik is our Larry Flynt in a way, and you need to stand up for that. I would be pissed if I was moderated out for an opinion. Lets hope this goes through

   Comment by rot — April 15, 2008
2. 

   Yes indeedy, we love our Henrik!

   Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 15, 2008
3. 

   I’m not yours, but I get what you’re saying I guess. I’d hate to represent anything other than my own brain, but I guess you can put me in any box that makes you able to stomach me.

   I think I’m only not being banned from sites like this though, because there is no money gained from banning me. I have been banned because paying customers (visitors on the website) has complained that I was being too mean to them, and they didn’t think it was funny when I told my honest opinion. So I was scaring away people who paid the bills of the people owning the site, and to some people, money is more important than principles - or maybe they just have a principle that censorship rules as long as they are the censor.

   Comment by Henrik — April 15, 2008
4. 

   Just so you know Henrik,

   There has never been any discussion of banning anyone yet from the site. Once or twice we’ve had private discussions about a specific thread of comments or two but usually by that point one of us has mentioned something in the thread and everything is cool once again.

   I also want to say that you and everyone else here is what makes the site better. Sure all us contributors could sit around and chat about movies but really its the comments that make the site enjoyable.

   Even if we started making money I’d like to think that we’d stick to our principles of friendly discussions that go where ever they naturally go. If that means Matt calling Andrew and Asshole then so be it or you saying something that gets taken the wrong way then so be it.

   Its the same thing as how I plan on continuing to post personal posts that would never end up on any “real” movie site simply because I enjoy gabbing about them and I always enjoy where discussion branches off from them.

   Row Three is a site for friends to gab about movies and thats the way I hope it always stays.

   Comment by John Allison — April 15, 2008
5. 

   It also helps to have intelligent people debating. It definitely isn’t helping your manners when you’re faced with extreme ignorance. So I think it speaks to rowthree.com’s contributors credit (disregarding myself of course) that nothing has degenerated into hardcore shit-slinging!

   Anyway, carry on with more important stuff. I haven’t even listened to this episode yet, I just saw my name mentioned and had to capitalize on the attention!

   Comment by Henrik — April 15, 2008
6. 

   i don’t comment too often but i read the site daily. and reading the comments is almost as entertaining as the articles themselves.

   Comment by murph — April 15, 2008
7. 

   thanks Murph, the comments and discussion are the idea. Absolutely.

   Comment by Kurt — April 15, 2008
8. 

   The difference between the comments here and the comments on that other nameless website (which may or may not be administered by John Campea and rhymes with “the shmovie schmlog”)is that the average commenter over there is unintelligent and their opinions aren’t worth protecting or listening to. I mean censorship is wrong in principal but christ, is anyone really going to go to bat over KevinSmithFan2000’s opinion that Transformers is teh suXXX Ballz?

   That could possibly be the most tangible downside to even the most moderate and restrained deleting of comments. People with anything worth saying don’t bother. And you get stuck with 30 commenters saying “right on John”, “once again, you hit the nail on the head with this one”.

   Frankly, they’re probably one deleted comment away from descending into an AICN style no man’s land without decency or honor.

   Aww shit. I just layed down the smack.

   Comment by Rusty James — April 15, 2008
9. 

   Watchable films by horrible directors:

   Paul W.S. Anderson - Mortal Kombat. Over-the-top effects, ninja action, relentless soundtrack. Definitely a watchable actionfilm, fucking WAY better than Armageddon. Mortal Kombat should have gotten a criterion release instead.

   Tom Shadyac - Ace Ventura. Extremely funny.

   Steve Oedekerk(sp?) - Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls. Extremely funny.

   Gore Verbinski - The Weather Man. Pirates and his part in The Time Machine remake can not be excused, but The Weather Man is fantastic. Michael Caine’s best performance.

   Robert Rodriguez - Desperado. The two other in the trilogy are shit, The Faculty is shit, the one Spy Kids film I have seen was shit. Still haven’t seen Planet Terror but not by accident. It looks like the very antithesis of a grindhouse film. I guess he did direct From Dusk Till Dawn too which is awesome, but who really thinks of that as a Robert Rodriguez film? This guy may be excused though.

   And Joel Schumacher is not a bad director. A Time To Kill is awesome. Tombstone on the other hand? Barf.

   Comment by Henrik — April 15, 2008
10. 

    Rusty -> I think the only difference is that if you’re in it for the money and fame and not because you enjoy talking about film, you won’t care if comments are intelligent or not, if anything, flame wars help your hits go up and the ad dollars will keep flowing into your pockets.

    Comment by Henrik — April 15, 2008
11. 

    Verbinski and Rodriugez are awesome. Anton Fuqua with Training Day.

    Comment by Rusty James — April 15, 2008
12. 

    Like I wrote on that blog, he talks about it like censorship is for efficiency… like if it weren’t for all these excessive tangents they may actually get to some profound undertaking. like its finding the cure for cancer. you are talking about film, efficiency need not factor in… it is not about unlocking the secret meaning of something, that final destination, its the journey. Row Three is all about the journey.

    occasionally that journey leads to a flame war but its all good entertainment. and its true what Rusty said, it nurtures a middle of the road mentality where the sensitive lot have a safe place to play and people with a bit more edge don’t bother.

    I just love that the post begins with a speech about democracy and ends with Cold War rhetoric of cutting the cancer out of society. That to me explains everything I need to know about the situation.

    Comment by rot — April 15, 2008
13. 

    What was funny about that article was that John deleted my comments because I commented about my inputs being deleted before and why they were.

    Comment by Swarez — April 15, 2008
14. 

    For the record I am allowed to call Andrew an Asshole because I pass him into movies, i.e. he’s my bitch.

    Comment by Matt Gamble — April 15, 2008
15. 

    Also Andrew, you really need to watch Flight of the Conchords, it is outstanding. A better comparison for it would be the Tenacious D HBO series from back in the day, as it is essentially the same format only using folk music.

    Comment by Matt Gamble — April 15, 2008
16. 

    Flight of the Conchords: wearing business socks will never be the same.

    Comment by rot — April 15, 2008
17. 

    Matt - We know you mean asshole in the most cuddly sense !

    Henrik - We are definitely on the same page on THE WEATHERMAN, and apparently Nic Cage as well, have you been reading Ian Pugh’s erratically scheduled postings on Mr. Cage over at Film Freak Central?

    I didn’t find Tenacious D nearly as endearing and sweet as Flight of the Conchords. Must be an American vs. Commonweath Nations (UK/Canada/NewZealand/etc) sense of humour thing. I find nearly all of American TV comedy to be a bit too obvious (yes, even the much lauded Arrested Development was a bit too overbaked for me). Give me a Brit-Com or Zesty Canadian sketch comedy show any day. Can I have a moment of silence for SCTV/4-on-the-Floor/Kids-in-the-Hall (and the Hilarious House of Frightenstein for that matter)?

    And lastly, it is nice to see I’m in good company and more or less agreement over that other blog. I was foolish enough to think that if I commented over there that it would actually get folks talking about movies beyond the Yes-Men or soft-disagreement mentality. I do find Doug’s sense of humour to be side-splitting in its Viking-Love and rampant non-sequitors. The webmaster over at Slashfilm was quite dismissive of my whining over being censored in a Post/Thread on how to discuss constructively in the Movie Site world. The irony of being silenced in a debate on how to debate is kind of satisfying in a way…

    Moving on…

    Comment by Kurt — April 15, 2008
18. 

    “I think I’m only not being banned from sites like this though, because there is no money gained from banning me.”

    Henrik, we’ve had bitter fights and battles over a long while now, but I want to make it clear:

    If it was my site, I would NEVER EVER ban you. you have frustrated me and having you on my facebook list was too much for me to handle somehow, but as far as forums like this go, as contrarian and as wrong as i find you sometimes (and you probably find me) i would take you over 1000 John Campeas. no exaggeration.

    Comment by Goon — April 15, 2008
19. 

    Flight of the Conchords is a better show then Tenacious D, and while the tone of the film is definitaly different, the basic setup and excecution of the show is almost exactly the same. I’d be stunned if Brett and Jermaine weren’t fans of The D.

    I’m not sure if I would agree that British Commonwealth comedy is superior to American comedy, though Benny Hill aside, I would back that mainstream BC comedy is vastly superior to Amerian mainstream comedy. British comedy just seems far better suited to a sitcom format, and they often find rather impressive ways of shooting sitcoms in amazingly impressive ways compared to American sitcoms, but some of the best American comics simply will never be “tame” enough for mainstream television. Heck, look at the awful treatment of something like The Dana Carvey Show, which was loaded with some of the best comedy writers ever assembled, yet lasted about 6 episodes because it was the most insane show I have ever seen.

    AD was a great network sitcom, but really should have been put on pay cable and allowed to do whatever the hell it wanted. Heck, I’d put Mr Show up against any British TV show and outside of Spaced, wouldn’t think twice about it.

    Comment by Matt Gamble — April 15, 2008
20. 

    (was i not supposed to mention the unnamed site by name? If not, i give permission, as if i have the right to give it, to edit that comment, and delete this one. at the same time, if people want to recognize the elephant in the room it would be very much appreciated)

    Comment by Goon — April 15, 2008
21. 

    Henrik - - agreed on Ace Ventura. That first movie has some of the funniest (and a couple most iconic) scenes of the last 20 years. Ace II on the other hand? Um, no.

    Rodriguez: I love the guy. Some of his kid friendly stuff is pretty bland, but the Mariachi Trilogy is pretty good (part three is admittedly less than average though). Desperado kicks HUGE amounts of ass. And Grindhouse, Sin City, Four Rooms, From Dusk/Dawn is bad ass. NOT a bad director, even though he does have a few clunkers. Looking forward to Machete and Sin City 2.

    Comment by Andrew James — April 15, 2008
22. 

    As for the above mentioned other movie site; my distaste for the site and its admin goes far beyond just the comments section. I’m not going to get into all of it here, but if you only knew all the behind scenes bullshit…

    grrr

    Comment by Andrew James — April 15, 2008
23. 

    And speaking of that, I can’t wait to see Pathology for obvious reasons.

    Comment by Andrew James — April 15, 2008
24. 

    fyi: grindhouse came out April 6 last year.

    Comment by Goon — April 15, 2008
25. 

    @kurt “The irony of being silenced in a debate on how to debate is kind of satisfying in a way…”

    in that same vein I got banned (not deleted mind you, banned) in a thread about how the dogmatic “evolutionist” are bad because they censor and suppress the ID community.

    lame!

    Comment by Rusty James — April 15, 2008
26. 

    Ben Stein called atheists - which includes Doug - the path to the holocaust. his documentary got all his guests by lying about the nature of the documentary, and kicked its subjects out of screenings and then lied about the reasoning…

    … and of course Campea, who is still a midwestern conservative at heart, brings him on to sprew bigotry.

    Comment by Goon — April 15, 2008
27. 

    Can’t believe you guys forgot the name of Wez (Vernon Wells) and Lord Humungous (Kjell Nilsson).

    Road Warrior is one of my top 5 favorite films. The ravaged post-apocalyptic world and over the top characters as well as the amazing action sequences left a huge impression on my young brain as a kid growing up. The haphazard grunge sado-masochistic aesthetic just sorta works somehow in the alternate reality of Road Warrior.

    I think the appeal for me in that genre (and the zombie movies as well) is the idea that not only is the world a blank slate - no rules, no boundaries, no regulations - but everything boils down to how ingenious and and resourceful you could be. It’s the ultimate in self-reliance fantasies. You feel no pity killing zombies or gang members, nor do you worry about any consequences of looting and pillaging whatever you want.

    Comment by Necron_99 — April 16, 2008
28. 

    @Goon “fyi: grindhouse came out April 6 last year.”

    oi! That does really underscore just how middle of the road this year has been for going to the multiplex.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 16, 2008
29. 

    the week that Grindhouse came out marks give or take one year of me listening to the show, as well.

    Comment by Goon — April 16, 2008
30. 

    “have you been reading Ian Pugh’s erratically scheduled postings on Mr. Cage over at Film Freak Central?”

    If this is the long-running Nicolas Cage article-spree that has been mentioned several times over the past 6 months or so, I did check it out at one point but got bored quite fast and never checked back with it.

    See Goon, I suspected as much. Even though you take alot of things very harsly and insist on debating from an extremely personal point of view, I never really took you for a moron. You seem like a pleasant enough man, and thoughtful enough to be bearable, we just happen to share nothing except a willingness to debate.

    Comment by Henrik — April 16, 2008
31. 

    Considering this thread already has 30 comments it’s clear that here discussion will always trump rules. Bring on the tangents, that is where the greatest ideas come from anyway.

    Comment by Shannon the Movie Moxie — April 16, 2008
32. 

    Still haven’t seen any of David Gordon Green’s films outside of “Snow Angels” which I saw 2 weeks ago and still only have a half written review on. Great film but something about it really messed with my emotions and I feel the need to see it again before putting more words to paper. At some point, I may get around to “extended thoughts” rather that a straight up review. With the crappy weather scheduled for the weekend, I look forward to staying in with a couple of films - maybe a Green mini-marathon. My thought on “Snow Angels” is that it’s a very good, GORGEOUS film.

    “Flight of the Conchords” - never seen the show but I do love, love LOVE their “Business Time” ditty thing. Hubby heard it on the radio and passed it on before I’d ever heard of the show. HYSTERICAL. I may have to rent/buy the DVD’s of the show - sounds like it’s all kind of like this:

    On bad directors making good movies…..

    Henrik is right on with “A Time To Kill” - that movie is pretty damned solid not to mention it’s the last time McConaughey was bearable. Still haven’t seen “Tombstone” - it’s on the growing list of things to see.

    I really enjoyed “Phone Booth” but I’ll admit that the fact I recognized Sutherland’s voice as soon as I heard it detracted a little from the movie. That role would have been better serviced by an unknown/less recognizable voice.

    “Deep Blue Sea” was pretty awesome in the campy fun boat. The fact that they kill of Jackson pretty early on - a character I thought would be central to the story - was pretty awesome.

    I’m really lacking on my De Palma back catalogue but dude “Phantom of the Paradise” is WAY BETTER than “Rocky Horror”. If I have to pick between the two, I’ll take Phantom any day of the week.

    I’m very excited to finally see “Inside”. I have a feeling I may have to shell out the $30 some odd bucks for that one since it’s fairly unlikely the local video store will bring in a copy. Also looking forward to seeing “Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead” again - loved that little film.

    On the censorship/other movie site debate: I must admit you guys are much more persistent than I am. I gave up commenting over there a long time ago - mostly because I can’t be bothered with the petty comments and the lack of real insight that goes into most of the posts. The one shinning beacon is Doug who consistently cracks me up. He is one funny man.

    To finish off this horrendously long comment - something a little fun: David Gordon Green defends Michael Bay.

    Comment by Marina Antunes — April 16, 2008
33. 

    One last though: Andrew - have you checked out Michael Winterbottom’s “The Claim”? I picked this up on a whim because of the cast and only later discovered that it was Winterbottom. Very nice looking and good western (not in the shoot ‘em up sort of sense though there is a little of that too).

    Comment by Marina Antunes — April 16, 2008
34. 

    I went to HMV and CD Plus to buy Inside yesterday since I really and I mean really want to see it. Neither place had it.

    Then I stopped off at the Movie Gallery rental shop and they didn’t have it. I’m going to head over to Future Shop at lunch so they had better have it other wise I’m going to be quite annoyed.

    Comment by John Allison — April 16, 2008
35. 

    Goon, can’t believe you’ve listened to our monotone droning for over a year! Thanks for listening. It’s definitely been fun.

    Comment by Andrew James — April 16, 2008
36. 

    And I’m finding more and more that Marina and myself have very similar movie tastes. I wonder what our MCT compatibility score would be on Flixster or Netflix? Pretty high I would imagine.

    So I haven’t seen (or heard of) “The Claim” - just added it to my queue though. I’m currently getting through the two disc, four hour western, “Broken Trail” (R. Duvall, Haden-Church) - might as well keep the westerns flowing! Thanks for the tip.

    Comment by Andrew James — April 16, 2008
37. 

    John - thanks for the heads up. This means I must look around first before heading out shopping tonight! Let me know how you fare at FS!

    Comment by Marina Antunes — April 16, 2008
38. 

    It is just me or does THE CLAIM quite possibly have a fantastic Milla Jovovich performance buried in there? I mean she does the glowering action girl (RE/UV/JoanOfArc) or clueless action girl (Fifth Element / RE-innocent-Alice) quite well, but in The Claim, she’s pretty solid in a dramatic role.

    Also, Peter Mullan is one of my all time favourite Brit actors (I mean seriously, his CV is a load of fun: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0611932/) and in Winterbottom’s film he gets to play a real son-of-a-bitch (even a proto-DanielPlainview) in this one. I like.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 16, 2008
39. 

    I have not seen a David Gordon Green film, but if he honestly thinks that Michael Bay does good action sequences, he must be some sort of hyperactive autistic Rain Man, or an idiot.

    Comment by Henrik — April 16, 2008
40. 

    Kurt - you’re not on your own with the thought on the fantastic Milla Jovovich performance. She’s quite good - surprisingly so. And agreed on Mullan - I’ve seen that guy show up in a bunch of stuff but he was really great here. I found out about this film by complete accident. I’m happy to see someone people have seen it but shocked that it seems to be so badly overlooked.

    Henrik - that was my thought too but frankly, I’m just not sure what to make of Green at this point. I’ve only seen one of his films and know the rest only by excellent reputation but then he follows up with a stoner comedy and THEN he tops it off with those out of left field comments? I’m leaning towards the genius camp. And to boot, he has a point on Bay - a point that Andrew and Kurt touched on during the discussion as well - we may not like his movies but he does what he does really well.

    Comment by Marina Antunes — April 16, 2008
41. 

    Kurt - you brought up Callum Keith Rennie as being all over Canadian TV and film - which is absolutely true - I think it’s worth noting that the he isn’t even Canadian!

    Comment by Marina Antunes — April 16, 2008
42. 

    @Marina,

    Business Time is the sublime height of the series in my opinion. But as for cleverest song they have done you must check out the live version of ‘Jenny’ on youtube.

    Comment by rot — April 16, 2008
43. 

    Also I’m with you on Snow Angels, Marina… its a great little film that leaves you in an uncomfortable place. I really enjoyed Kate Beckinsale’s performance, but the young lovers were perfectly cast.

    Comment by rot — April 16, 2008
44. 

    Rot - oh dear. I may have just stumbled on a new addiction for hubby and I. We rarely seem to agree on TV but this is bound to make us both laugh!

    As for “Snow Angels” - I was impressed by all of the acting, including Nicky Katt who always seems to pop in stuff but for some reason, he also always seems to be playing a version of the same character but who actually managed to be pretty good here. And Beckinsale was a surprise for me. I haven’t seen much of her work outside of the Hollywood stuff but was surprised to find that she started off in Masterpiece and though that may not count for much - it seems to me most of the actors that start through the BBC route seem to be classically trained and generally go on to strong careers. I always assumed she was just a pretty face but she’s impressed me.

    Comment by Marina Antunes — April 16, 2008
45. 

    “he does what he does really well.”

    I definitely don’t think so. Unless you can excuse it by saying his goal is to make a bad movie, but I do think he strives to make things exciting and cool, and fails miserably time and time again.

    Comment by Henrik — April 16, 2008
46. 

    Henrik - Granted, I’ll give you that it’s not high art and that there are other directors doing action much better but for what it is - mindless entertainment - I can’t fault him. I don’t love his movies but I do enjoy the entertainment I get from Bad Boys, The Rock and The Island.

    Comment by Marina Antunes — April 16, 2008
47. 

    DAMN. Looks like Snow Angels already left town. Beckinsdale is my secret mistress. Don’t tell Penny.

    PS - Was pleased to find that Nikki Kat was in a little film called Phantoms that I picked up the other day. During opening titles, I was thinking “oh awesome, Nikki Kat is in this too?” Unfortunately the rest of the movie is ballz. I don’t know what Jay and Silent Bob are talking about.

    Comment by Andrew James — April 16, 2008
48. 

    @Andrew,

    I always took it as they were making fun of Ben Affleck in Phantoms

    Comment by rot — April 16, 2008
49. 

    @Marina - Callum Keith Rennie NOT CANADIAN? Oi, he wasn’t born here, I never knew that. Love the man and his work though. Should be a bigger name than he is. Creepy dude in Lynn Stopkewich’s SUSPICIOUS RIVER. oi.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 16, 2008
50. 

    @Andrew, Re: Phantoms - Rot’s right on this one. They were definitely taking a piss at ‘em.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 16, 2008
51. 

    Okay I’m now pissed off at DVD shops. I ended up with constant blank stares when I tried to ask for Inside. I gave them the fact that it is the Unrated version (like that matters) and I also told them its being put out by Dimension Extreme. None of them had any clue and just looked at me like I was talking complete gibberish. I know I’m not asking for Juno or Atonement, or any other blockbuster but if you work in a store that sells DVDs you should have a flipping clue what DVDs exist.

    So, no I did not find it anywhere in town. I just checked on Amazon.ca and they are out of stock already somehow. I’m thinking that perhaps it ended up being delayed in Canada.

    I just have to say this is why pirating happens. Yes it is my false sense of entitlement but damn when something becomes available and I want it I should be able to f’ing get it.

    Comment by John Allison — April 16, 2008
52. 

    Kurt - he may not have been born here and technically not Canadian but for all I know, he has citizenship. Fact of the matter is, he’s English!

    And still haven’t seen Stopkewich’s “Suspicious River” though I’m a big fan of her first film “Kissed”. The last thing I saw Rennie in was “Normal” and again, a good performance!

    Comment by Marina Antunes — April 16, 2008
53. 

    “I always took it as they were making fun of Ben Affleck in Phantoms.”

    - I’m not too sure on this. In the beginning of the movie at Banky’s, when Affleck says it (”Affleck was the bomb in Phantoms… what’s up now!?”), it makes it sound like an inside “fuck you” to someone (most likely a specific critic or film maker).

    Comment by Andrew James — April 16, 2008
54. 

    I don’t think there can be any doubt that the Phantoms comments are an example of razzing Ben Affleck, as it is custom to do in Kevin Smith movies. The fact that Jay seems to like the movie is not a compliment.

    Comment by Henrik — April 16, 2008
55. 

    Well again, they do this quite extensively in the banter between Damon and Affleck. You’re right, this is very like Smith to poke fun at someone or something in his movies, but it’s not like Smith to beat it to death (bashing Affleck three times in the movie).

    Then again, maybe you’re right as Phantoms sucks ass and Affleck is nothing special in it. Liev Schreiber is the standout and O’Toole needs to have his head examined for appearing in that movie.

    Comment by Andrew James — April 16, 2008
56. 

    By the way, our list can’t be considered a “memorial” can it? Doesn’t the person have to be dead to call it a memorial. It should be changed to honorary (or dishonarary as the case may be). Am I wrong on this?

    Comment by Andrew James — April 16, 2008
57. 

    I remember being insanely excited about Phantoms. There was a trailer on one of my other VHS tapes, and I thought it looked amazing. When I finally picked it up it of course, was nothing special, which is too bad. I still have it somewhere around my parents’ house.

    Looking back on it though, it is a pretty high-profile cast for such a C-grade horrormonster film. I mean Liev Schreiber is amazing, and Peter O’Toole is one of the heaviest legends still working. Ben Affleck is shit in it though - as he is in pretty much everything, except movies that have Matt Damon in them. His movie ‘Gone Baby Gone’ was really good though, hopefully he will direct more good stuff.

    Comment by Henrik — April 16, 2008
58. 

    I believe the proper term is Pre-Memorial. I had a tiki lounge in a basement suite I lived in, I named it the Gordie Howe Pre-Memorial Daquari Hut Lounge.

    Comment by Colleeny — April 16, 2008
59. 

    John - According to HMV.ca release date for “Inside” is May 13th for the not so crappy price of $25.99.

    Full listing here.

    Comment by Marina Antunes — April 16, 2008
60. 

    @Andrew - “Am I wrong on this?”

    I don’t, say what you will about the tenets of national socialism, at least it’s an ethos.

    Comment by Kurt — April 16, 2008
61. 

    I don’t need your fuckin’ sympathy; I need my Johnson.

    Comment by Andrew James — April 16, 2008
62. 

    What do you need that for dude?

    Comment by Birdman — April 16, 2008
63. 

    Andrew, you’ve almost convinced me that calling Brian DePalma a bad filmmaker is acceptable. Hi, Mom is definitely out on DVD, so is Greetings (Hi, Mom Part I)

    Comment by Rusty James — April 16, 2008
64. 

    Rusty, Indeed after a little searching I discovered there are actually a few versions of Hi Mom out there. The Show notes have been updated to reflect my growing unease at DePalma being so carelessly written off by Andrew, and putting him on the same list with Michael Bay, Renny Harlin and Uwe Boll.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 17, 2008
65. 

    The Wind That Shakes the Barley andThe Host also came out in Feb last year, and Hot Fuzz was early April. Daywatch was also a late April release from what I remember, though might be wrong. Heck, you could probably come up with a fairly legit top ten for the year and only use pre-May films. But that is more a testiment to how ridiculously deep last year was for movies.

    DePalma is a hack and Kurt knows it.

    As for the show Flight of the Conchords, it’s pretty different then their live shows which are very good, but the show allows a bit more freedom for jokes since they don’t have to play during their songs.

    Comment by Matt Gamble — April 17, 2008
66. 

    Now the wife is addicted to Flight of the Conchords, joining me for a 90 minute session last night. (and “It’s Business Time” inspired far too many laughs to count. probably a good work-outs worth of calories…) It’s funny ’cause it’s true.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 17, 2008
67. 

    “recycling is not part of the foreplay, buts its also very important”

    the comedy of Flight of Conchords transfers over a wide spectrum of tastes… I showed it to a couple of people who I know do not like their comedy clever and they could not stop laughing… but at the same time it is very clever. I showed you the french song clip later in the season Kurt… now that is the truth for anyone from Canada.

    Comment by rot — April 17, 2008
68. 

    @Matt

    Murray is an essential component of the comedy, and is not a part of the live performances. Puts Stephen Merchant as the agent in Extras to shame.

    Comment by rot — April 17, 2008
69. 

    I’m sorry, but these are awful, AWFUL films by DePalma over the last 30 years. Yes, he’s had some films that are decent (Carlito’s/Scarface/Untouchables) and maybe you’re right that he shouldn’t be on the list (maybe). But for the most part, if you think he’s a good director, you’ve got to be joking:

    Redacted
    The Black Dahlia
    Femme Fatale
    Mission to Mars (guilty pleasure)
    Snake Eyes
    Mission: Impossible
    Raising Cain
    The Bonfire of the Vanities
    Wise Guys
    Body Double

    Comment by Andrew James — April 17, 2008
70. 

    Snake Eyes isn’t horrible. It starts out being awesome and slowly degenerates, but it’s passable.

    Comment by Henrik — April 17, 2008
71. 

    You haven’t even seen Raising Cain!

    Though I will strongly argue that Scarface is one of the worst movies ever made. That critics have allowed their feelings on the film to be swayed by the fevered egos of the mainstream moviegoing public pisses me off to no end.

    And rot I totally agree. I was more commenting on Marina using a live performance of a song as her basis of what she thought the show would be like. The show is actually quite different from their live performances, not that either is better then the other.

    Comment by Matt Gamble — April 17, 2008
72. 

    Stupid Row Three isn’t letting me embed YouTube videos. [ed. your wish is our command]

    She’s so hot - Boom (live)
    

    She’s so hot - Boom
    

    Comment by Matt Gamble — April 17, 2008
73. 

    I like Body Double and Mission Impossible. The first because it was pretty much the closest thing I could get to porn when I was a kid and the second because everyone else complained how it was so confusing yet I followed it perfectly. My biggest complaint about MI is the whole helicopter in the chunnel. Without that bit it would have been a great movie.

    Comment by John Allison — April 17, 2008
74. 

    Because we are in the mood, here is the original piece that was forwards to me by rot (admittedly a while ago) that pushed me over the edge beyond several of my savvier friends who did keep bringing up the subject.

    Ah, to be young and French:

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 17, 2008
75. 

    Also a pretty big MI:1 fan. Even though it was predictably stupid in the big reveal, and the helicopter/train thing was a bit to out-of-synch with the rest of the film. But everything else, particularly Jean Reno and Ving Rhames hit the popcorn-action button quite nicely thank you very much.

    That being said, I liked the second one even better (this often gets me dirty looks when I bring this up…there is a lot of hate for Woo’s Mission).

    I really, really hated the third one though.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 17, 2008
76. 

    To think that Andrew & I were struggling with the idea of making a show without new-release reviews anchoring it. To see by all the delicious digressions going on in this conversation, we should be doing more ’shoot-the-shit’ sorts of podcasts.

    Thanks for the support fellow rowthree-ers….

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 17, 2008
77. 

    Personally, I’d hate to hear reviews of the shit that is out right now. I already know its pretty much crap and I don’t need to hear you guys talking about it.

    Comment by John Allison — April 17, 2008
78. 

    I mean who, really, wouldn’t want to wax philosophically on Leatherheads, The Prom Night remake or 21. Really.

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 17, 2008
79. 

    That French clip was pretty awesome!

    Comment by Marina Antunes — April 17, 2008
80. 

    stop posting clips that I can’t see…. stupid work firewall.

    I’ll just have to check them out tonight but still…. stupid work firewalls suck.

    Oh and I say we either wax philosophically on attempting to rip unborn babies out of their mothers or blue sterile midgets and their battles against the government.

    Comment by John Allison — April 17, 2008
81. 

    Mission Impossible isn’t bad. The wire sequence is an iconic 90s moment in cinema. The second one felt like torture when I saw it, which is along time ago, I probably didn’t have any appreciation for MASSIVE CHEESE, but it has Thandie Newton (horrible) so I’m not giving it a second try. All I remember was alot of people taking off rubbermasks, and nothing making sense. And motorcycles aren’t that cool.

    You should do more shows sorrounding a top 5, because it usually has some sort of broader subject that can be fun to discuss (if sufficiently interesting). A review - at least for me - is something I first get from paid professionals, get from amateurs second. And also, for someone like me, the reviews of current cinema features will more often than not be completely irrelevant - especially post-August.

    Comment by Henrik — April 17, 2008
82. 

    Andrew, Like I said it’s an oddly persuasive case agianst DePalma. You almost have me believing he’s a hack…
    Except he makes great films Hi, Mom (one of my very favorite movies), Blow Out, Carlito’s Way, Caire, Untouchables, Sisters, Body Double.
    Obsession, Femme Fatal and especially Raising Caine are the type of “bad” movies that only great directors make. I’ll go to bat for Black Dahlia any day of the week. It’s only crime is that it’s in the gaillo genre which people never seem to get. DePalma + Zigmund = awesome.
    Redacted wowed me. I attempted to write a review of it but couldn’t put it in words. I’d have to rewatch it. It gets compared to Casualties of War but actually has more in common with Hi, Mom.

    I’ve never liked Casaulties of War, I think it’s hokey. Scar Face… eh… good sequences but the character is so stupid and worthless.

    Comment by Rusty James — April 17, 2008
83. 

    Femme Fatale pisses me off to no end. I won’t even get into it.

    Casualties of War. It’s alright. Another Hollywood movie to help convince us that every military person is crazy or disturbed (unless his name is Michael J Fox).

    Black Dahlia is not completely terrible. The acting is great (especially Swank) and I love the style. But the story is so off the wall with strange characters coming in and out and through, that I still don’t have much of a clue as to what the hell was going on. Never want to see that one again.

    @ Matt: movies I’ve seen: http://www.moviepatron.com/page9.html
    I admit I don’t remember a lot of it, but I remember seeing it on cable in High School and thinking it was pretty stupid; even though I like Lithgow quite a bit. Also a 5.5 on IMDb helps to confirm my suspicions.

    Comment by Andrew James — April 17, 2008
84. 

    About Femme Fatal, I agree it’s a bad film especially for the ending(I call it a bad film above) but it’s not a film that could be made by Tom Shadyac, Mike Bay, Steven Sommers, etc. Maaaayybe Renny Harlin…

    @”But the story is so off the wall with strange characters coming in and out and through, that I still don’t have much of a clue as to what the hell was going on.”

    like I said, it’s the type of movie that gets misunderstood.

    Comment by Rusty James — April 17, 2008
85. 

    Tarantino also said that Bonfire of the Vanities is a mess, but it’s the kind of mess that only a good filmmaker can make. So maybe that’s a running theme in DePalma’s filmography.

    Comment by Henrik — April 17, 2008
86. 

    My dislike of DePalma carries over into my dislike of Tarantino, they both make films that are about films more than they are about anything. They are too infatuated with style and film history, they are covers more than they are pieces of art in their own right. I just re-watched Kill Bill and I could not help to notice how much the screenplay suffers from the onslaught of references… honestly if you removed the references from the dialogue you may have a five minute film in there. It is all posturing, and DePalma is posturing (Redacted was a piece of shit btw). Its fine if you just want to get a mash-up of your favorite genre films, but the same people that praise Tarantino’s Kill Bill are the same that denounce Van Sant’s Psycho, and I would say at least there is no posturing to Van Sant’s Psycho, it makes it very clear what it is doing… Kill Bill does essentially the same but with the allure of novelty because fragments are rearranged, chewed up and reassembled. Its still a collage, a Warhol, a cover song. cinematic onanism

    Comment by rot — April 17, 2008
87. 

    I get that feeling from QT as well with stuff like Kill Bill, I agree that it’s a piece of shit, but I think Pulp Fiction is an awesome movie, one of the most entertaining films made in my lifetime probably, and I also think that Death Proof is a greatly entertaining film. He has humour. I have no idea if falling 4 stories down through a glasshouse and kindof developing a speach impediment is a reference or not, but I think it’s funny.

    Comment by Henrik — April 17, 2008
88. 

    @Rot

    I can’t really defend DePalma / Tarrantino from charges that their films are about style and film history not people and the real world. I understand why that doesn’t work for some. To me it’s great to watch great cinema as a means to it’s own end. Death Proof is about car chases and car crash scenes. But that car crash is sublime.
    Jungle Julia and Stuntman Mike are movie characters not people. But they’re people I wish were real (well… you know what I mean).

    I don’t know what Van Sant’s Psycho has too do with anything. Haven’t seen it but I like Van Sant over-all. I like Gerry FCOL!

    Redacted worked as great satire for me (btw). A great statement about a war that I didn’t think there was much left to say. I want to say it again before I defend it too vociferously.

    Comment by Rusty James — April 17, 2008
89. 

    Hey Andrew, have you gotten to watching Beyond Thunderdome yet? If so, how would you rank all three films? I haven’t seen any of them yet, but I’d be willing to give them a shot.

    Comment by Aaron — April 17, 2008
90. 

    Aaron:

    Well Thunderdome is the one I remember watching most from my childhood. So having not revisited yet (I did just buy it though for $3 last night), I can pretty much be sure that I would rank them this way…

    1) Doomsday
    2) Mad Max 2
    3) Mad Max 3
    4) Mad Max 1

    It’s a fun little series though all the way around. And I doubt it matters which order you watch them in.

    Comment by Andrew James — April 17, 2008
91. 

    Oh yeah, I forgot to recommend Jeremy “Br. Beaks” Smith’s series on Brian DePalma over at AICN, it’s from a few years ago. No link sorry but their search feature isn’t as horrific as it used to be.

    Comment by Rusty James — April 18, 2008
92. 

    I guess they weren’t that hard to find

    http://www.aintitcool.com/node/9022
    http://www.aintitcool.com/node/9108

    there’s probably a few more.

    Comment by Rusty James — April 18, 2008
93. 

    Great top 5. this time.
    Paul W.S. Anderson is a big guilty pleasure for me, Resident Evil is a great action horror and Event Horizon is his masterpiece. He actually cut 30 minutes of material out of the film to get it below 90 minutes and that’s why the film is so flawed. Characters clearly have some sort of interesting background and it’s hinted often enough but never enough. I read the novel tie in and it goes much better in to characters and why Sam Neil is crazy as shit. Plus the ending is way different.

    And Phone booth is written by B-movie king Larry Choen, who did The Stuff, It’s Alive, Q The Winged Serpent among others.

    Comment by swarez — April 18, 2008
94. 

    I heart Larry Cohen. “Can’t Get Enough….of the Stuff!”

    

    and my favorite - the demise of Chocolate Chip Charlie:

    

    Comment by Kurt Halfyard — April 18, 2008

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