Cinecast 73 – Paper, Clocks and The Wisdom of Crocodiles


this episode:
There Will Be Blood, Sweeney Todd, Charlie Wilson’s War, The Orphanage

Unwrap the complete Show Notes by clicking on this link…

cinecast_promo.jpg

Show notes for Cinecast Episode #73

  • Intro music: :00 – 2:35
  • Opening: :37 – 5:21
  • Man From Earth: 5:22 – 15:56
  • [.rec]: 15:57 – 23:42
  • Other holiday viewings: 23:43 – 26:46
  • There Will Be Blood: 26:47 – 56:23
  • Charlie Wilson’s War: 56:24 – 1:11:12
  • – – long, random tangent (Hoffman, Woo, Van Dame): 1:11:33 – 1:20:01
  • Sweeney Todd: 1:20:02 – 1:39:04
  • The Orphanage: 1:39:05 – 1:51:57
  • No DVD picks, next week and closing thoughts: 1:51:58 – 1:57:54
  • Outro music: 1:55:42 – 1:58:39
  • Outtakes: 1:58:40 – 2:00:10

Bumper Music by “My Chemical Romance” and “Kournakova”


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The Man from Earth:

Andrew’s review


ACTUALLY A REALLY POOR TRAILER:

The Greatest American Hero (William Katt)
William Katt

Tony Todd
Tony Todd


[.rec]:


TRAILER (English version):


There Will Be Blood:

Andrew’s review


TRAILER:


Sweeney Todd:


TRAILER:

Timothy Spall
Timothy Spall


The Orphanage:

Andrew’s review


TRAILER:


Charlie Wilson’s War:

Andrew’s review


TRAILER:


Comments or questions?
Leave your thoughts in the comment section below, or email us:
feedback@rowthree.com (general)
andrew@rowthree.com
kurt@rowthree.com
– – Kurt’s BLOG

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John Allison
Editor

I found Charlie Wilson's War very strange in one way. It felt like the movie was without a point (which is not a bad thing) until right at the end when they brought out the hammer all at once.

John Allison
Editor

I should listen to the podcast as a whole. The hammer I was thinking about was the scene you mentioned.

I totally agree with the American Gangster comment.

Goon
Guest

there is no comparison between MI:3 and Lost – JJ Abrams had the concept for Lost, but its not really his show. The producers of Lost, Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof, run that show now, and the people they bring on as it goes along, such as Brian Vaughn of "Ex Machina" comic fame, are involved with such smart projects that jibe with what they do. Avoiding Lost because of the Abrams connection is pretty baseless.

Goon
Guest

Sweeney Todd:

It has my #10 position for the year, but with caveats.

Is it a perfect film? Nope, theres a number of things I could nitpick at or say arent all that special. I dont think the individual songs are very catchy, and the main performances arent the best of the year either. But I don't know what to say, on a purely visceral entertainment value it worked for me beginning to end, especially once Baron Cohen appeared I had just bought into it. So maybe its a matter of my particular enjoyment of the actual story and its content being adequately presented. If I was familiar with the play for all I know I could be steaming mad at what Burton did with it. So its a #10 with apologies, a 9 out of 10 from me in the same way 28 Weeks Later is a 9 out of 10 for me.

And all of this in spite of the fact that I don't think much of Johnny Depp, never thought much of Helena Bonham Carter, and havent particularly been impressed with anything Burton's done since Ed Wood.

Rickman stinks in the Potter movies? I don't think its possible for Rickman to stink in anything – he's just Rickman, and in the Potter movies especially he's not in them anywhere near enough to significantly detract from anything. In Harry Potter 5 there is a number of things he said that I laughed at, but ONLY because some of his dialogue have unintended sexual double intendres that underlie so much of the scary psycho fan fiction that plagues the Internet.. none of this I can blame on Rickman.

Goon
Guest

by the way:

Movie Blog Post

i've said it before, i'll say it again:

this man is a cocksucker

Matt Gamble
Guest

Not that their is anything wrong with that?

Oh yeah, Sweeney Todd sucks. Burton is minor Gilliam on only his best days.

Rusty James
Guest

Goon, Campea really sticks in your craw. I don't get it, he's the definition of innocuous. It's like being offended by rice.

Andrew James
Guest

OK guys, its 4am on New Years Day. Thats not exactly the wwayr to satr othe new year.

all love on the movie ffront.

regsrdleess of your opinion.

~me

Andrew James
Guest

PS – I ddn';t like Sweeney TRoddd at all. I understoand why some may dig it, but on so many top ten listas? Why? I'm shocked.

John Allison
Editor

Does anyone else have the feeling that Andrew was out drinking last night? 🙂

Goon
Guest

"I don’t get it, he’s the definition of innocuous. It’s like being offended by rice."

Rusty, would it seem as innocuous if you knew someone almost exactly like him you had to be around almost every day?

Goon
Guest

(also, I tend to be annoyed by evil idiocy for evil idiocy's sake, not whether or not it has a lot of sway)

Jonathan
Admin

Sweeney Todd cracked my top ten, although I could easily replace it with about five other movies (in fact, the more I reflect, the more I think it's probably more like #11 or #12, but I had just seen it when I made my list). Then again, I'm a Tim Burton fan and despite his over-saturation the past few years, I'm still loyal to Depp and know that there are very few as talented as him. For Burton, I am completely crazy over Ed Wood (probably in my top 25 ever) and really enjoy Edward Scissorhands and Big Fish. Beetlejuice, Batman, and Sleepy Hollow I think are good movies as well. He sure can make some stinkers though, I have no problem admitting that.

My initial response to Eastern Promises was lukewarm, but I saw it again and it's actually a much better film than I remembered. It's crossed my mind to switch it into my top ten, but I think I need to mull it over more.

Henrik
Guest

Tim Burton fucking rules, and Sleepy Hollow is his best film in my opinion. That script was excellent, and Burtons style fit perfectly with the tone of it. It still stands as the zenith of his career for me. I am dying to see Sweeney Todd.

Andrew James
Guest

Hey all. Happy New Year! Ha! What would make you think I was out drinking last night? The good news is I didn't drive.

Anyway, I don't really consider myself a Burton fan. And here's why: Of all his films (I just checked IMDb), here are the ones I've seen:

Pee-Wee Big Adventure

Beetle Juice

Batman

Edwad Scissorhands

Batman Returns

Mars Attacks

Sleepy Hollow

Planet of the Apes

Big Fish

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

Sweeney Todd

Of that list, here's the movies I liked: Batman and Big Fish. The others don't do it for me at all so in retrospect I guess I just don't like Tim Burton and therefore am biassed and predisposed to not like Sweeny – what with it being a musical AND a Burton film.

Marina Antunes
Guest

And I like 7 out of the bunch. Not a bad track record for me.

Jonathan
Admin

Andrew, I will no longer talk with you concerning Tim Burton until you get your ass out there and watch Ed Wood. Until then, I shall ignore everything you say concerning the man!!!!

Seriously though, if you value my opinion at all, make it a priority. 😉

P.S. Your post-New Years comments are absolutely hilarious. Drinking and typing is dangerous.

Goon
Guest

agreeing with Jonathan, sitting through all of those but NOT Ed Wood is a crime.

Kurt
Guest

Agreed that Ed Wood is easily Burton's best film, which is strange because his signature style is so toned down. But its the performances and the characters that make that film. It's one of the better films of the 1990s.

I'd put myself as pretty big Burton Fan. I liked both of his Batman flicks, loved Edward Scissorhands, Beetlejuice, The first Peewee's film, I think his version of Charlie and the Chocolate factor is better the the one from the 1970s. I was a bit lukewarm on Big Fish, but it certainly merits a second viewing. I liked Mars Attacks quite a lot actually, I seem to be way in the minority on that one, but it was a blast. I was indifferent on Sleepy Hollow and I absolutely loathed his remake of Planet of the Apes. But for the most part, the man has a solid track record (I dig on his two produced stop-motion projects and his early short films Vincent and Frakenweenie are both gold too.)

Henrik
Guest

I am not the biggest fan of Ed Wood. It's horrendously long, going on for seemingly hours and hours even after Martin Landau leaves the film. His scenes are easily the best parts of the film. I didn't find Ed Wood particularly interesting, even if he did wear dresses, and I definitely couldn't be bothered with his lovelife. It does have some classic moments though, like "This is the most uncomfortable coffin I have ever been in!" and the rant against Boris Karloff.

Sleepy Hollow on the other hand… Wonderful. Hollywood at its best. I love that movie, it's one of those films I honestly think I can could watch back-to-back and still enjoy it.

I was pretty bored by Frankenweenie, but I agree that Vincent kicks ass.

Goon
Guest

"I think his version of Charlie and the Chocolate factor is better the the one from the 1970s."

BURN THE WITCH! Seriously, Wilder is so subtly malevolent and the songs are simply a zillion times better in that version. Every scene is fantastic and iconic. The new one is a mess from start to finish and Depp simply does impressions in place of a real Wonka character. The script is awful and the attempt to give Wonka a backstory is the most awful part of all.

I do also like Mars Attacks though, but I don't really consider it "good".

One of my favorite things about Ed Wood is how much it transcends being a biopic. None of the events in the movie had to be even remotely true, these could all be made up characters, and it would still be a fantastic story.

Jonathan
Admin

Oh, Ed Wood is just a wonder to watch, especially because while it's an exaggerated and fantastical look at Ed Wood's life, it still shines with a sense of believability, like this was really what Ed Wood was really like (although I think it's safe to say that the accuracy is well… below par).

Not only is it Burton's best, but it might be my favorite performance of Depp's. The grin he has on his face for nearly the entire movie makes me smile right along the whole time, and the scene where Ed meets Orson Welles is just… priceless. I could go on, but some important people here *cough* Andrew *cough* haven't seen it, so I won't. Honestly, I can't think of one single flaw with the movie off the top of my head.

Goon
Guest

I think of Depp's performance in that film as kind of a Jon Lovitz impersonation. and I mean that as a compliment believe it or not 😛

it is also my favorite Depp performance, one of only a few.

I er, went to see Sweeney Todd again. Nothing doing January 1st, gf hadnt seen it and she also hasnt liked a Burton movie in forever. Thought she'd like it. I actually liked it MORE the second time, the songs having more character (I guess they're growers?) and I especially noticed the quality of the score behind it.

Henrik
Guest

If there is one thing you can say about Goon it is that he knows his child stuff, and takes it seriously like a heart attack.

Jonathan
Admin

I remember reading that Depp was channeling a mix of the Tin Man and Casey Kasem for his Ed Wood.

As for Sweeney Todd, the part where Depp is going through the street, kind of sing-talking, then when her bursts out the "I will have vengeance…" probably my favorite part of the movie.

Goon
Guest

Henrik, what can I say? a lot of the lessons/morals, or underlying sense of humor or menace in a lot of these stories, really shapes who we are as people. I have a lot of respect and admiration for high quality 'childrens entertainment' with this in mind. Roald Dahl in particular is a master at this.

I'm also amazingly fond of Jim Henson's work. While only some of his work was subversive, especially by todays standards, his devotion to old style, pun-based humor, ridiculous talking vegetables, old country and vaudeville songs… I actually feel bad who don't grow up with the Muppet Show in their lives. There's so much adoration for older culture promoted in that program that I fear will eventually be lost. Those puppets have more character than most real looking CGI fare we'll ever come across in our entire lives.

Henrik
Guest

Man you're so stereotypical. Everybody thinks that the shows they grew up with were at such-and-such a higher level than the shit kids watch now, and feel bad that kids have to suffer from this bad entertainment, instead of the magical worlds of quality that they grew up on. Fucking ridiculous. Kids are kids, and kids shows are kids shows. I mean:

"Those puppets have more character than most real looking CGI fare we’ll ever come across in our entire lives."

Says who? Why don't we wait till the kids themselves grow up and have perspective. I bet you dollars to donuts they'll be whining that the modern entertainment lacks the soul of the classic 3D animation that they themselves grew up with loved so much. Obviously to you, it won't feel the same as the stuff from your childhood. Because you're grown up.

It's alright though. I don't want to yell at you for liking what you like, you can like whatever you want. Just whenever I hear people complain about the lack of quality in childrens programs I get ticked off. The experience is unapproximatable (is that a word in english?).

Kurt
Guest

"unapproximatable: can be a word. I love the flexibility of the English langauge!

I tend to agree with you Henrik when it comes to Nostalgia and kids shows, often going back reveals just how bad some of your favorite child-hood entertainments were. Having said that, The Muppets have aged quite well. I always dug on the serious amount of 'meta' going in that show (Eat your heart out Larry Sanders!)

Still films like Ratatouille, most of Miyazaki and Ghilbi's output make me feel that Kids have it pretty darn good today when it comes to 'childrens movies'. Just as always there is a lot of pure shite out there too. Same as it ever was.

John Allison
Editor

"Still films like Ratatouille, most of Miyazaki and Ghilbi’s output make me feel that Kids have it pretty darn good today when it comes to ‘childrens movies’. Just as always there is a lot of pure shite out there too. Same as it ever was."

Of course, except for Ratatouille I doubt that even 5% of kids will see any Miyazaki or Ghilbi. You can't say that with the Muppets. The only kids who didn't see the Muppets would have been those without a TV.

Kurt
Guest

Fair Enough. Yes it is worthy of celebrating a time when to good pop culture is the ultra-mainstream pop culture, but that is rare (and seemed to happen mainly in the 1970s in North America).

But like with almost everything else (books, movies, TV), there is some great, great stuff out there to be found with even the most minimal of digging.

Oh and a lot of folks saw SPIRITED AWAY, and somehow it even properly won the Academy Award for animation. Also, 5% is a pretty high number in terms of mass-culture. Most forms of entertainment would kill for 5% of their demo.

Matt Gamble
Guest

I think their is a pretty valid argument that at least here in the US children's programming has taken a serious dip. PBS funding certainly has been reduced and their definately isn't a show like The Electric Company still around for older kids. Education/entertainment shows like Mr Rogers or Captain Kangaroo are no longer around, no 3-2-1 Contact, and even Sesame Street has taken a step back. Now the shows are almost entirely facsimiles of one another, designed more to keep production costs down so PBS doesn't lose too much money.

Then take basic Saturday morning cartoons, which lasted for 6 freaking hours back in their heyday during the 80's. Many of those types of shows simply would never make the air today because they are too expensive to make (animation quality being reduced is an unarguable fact) or their basic material covers premises that are too subversive or grandiose for execs to find appealing or marketable to children. Today children's cartoons are blatant marketing campaigns cheaply produced to help move product rather then help children experience new ideas or new possibilities. But while their earlier incarnations were also used primarily to push product, since the creators had far more control over what they could produce, you had vastly different styles being used with several "children's" shows covering pretty heady themes and mythologies that any kid couldn't possibly grasp.

Goon
Guest

"Everybody thinks that the shows they grew up with were at such-and-such a higher level than the shit kids watch now"

Excuse me? You're telling this to someone who made Ratatouille his number 2 of the year and has that within his top 10 of all time. I said “Those puppets have more character than most real looking CGI fare we’ll ever come across in our entire lives.” – MOST is the watchword, and this is a statement of my enthusiasm and value of the Muppets' tactile character. Tell me, do you think modern CGI is ALWAYS better than some guy in a suit? You can apply my point to the original Alien movies vs now, the tactile 'guy in makeup' practical use in parts of 'the Descent' vs. "I am Legend". You know, they were thinking of making a CGI Muppets movie last year – do you really think that is necessary, and dont you think it betrays the point of the Muppets in the first place? Do you actually think a CGI Muppet would be better than the puppet? Its an argument based completely from logic, not nostalgia. Burtons "Chocolate Factory" remake sucks on its own accord, not because I have nostalgia.

I don't even need nostalgia. "Muppets from Space" was made when I was like, 20, and its as good or better as most modern kids films.

Kids do indeed have plenty of good stuff in both film and TV – and the best stuff these days isnt even on Sesame Street. Years from now todays kids will probably still be talking about Spongebob and LazyTown. I envy kids for having much better representations of Superman and Batman than I grew up with. But that doesnt put modern childrens shows beyond criticism – the vaudeville aspect of the Muppets that I feel will be lost, well, can you show me how thats not true? There's nothing similar to it on TV for adults or children if you ask me. But thats the way it is – its a give and take, really.

But thanks for jumping to conclusions. Condsidering my outward extended love for Pixar I don't even know how you jumped to it in the first place. Geez, you'd think all these months of knowing about the His Dark Materials series, the Harry Potter talks, etc would have given a clue.

You can apologize anytime 😛

Goon
Guest

"Then take basic Saturday morning cartoons, which lasted for 6 freaking hours back in their heyday during the 80’s."

I also lament that I cant get up Saturday mornings and just appreciate some ANIMATION, regardless of content. However I think you'll find these days its moreover spread over the course of the week. Cartoon Network (ie Samurai Jack, not referring to Adult Swim), Nickelodeon has increased its output quite a bit.

Theres still shows with the spirit of a Captain Kangaroo out there, the difference is that theres so many shows that they don't work as broad as they used to back then when there was less competition. So instead of a Mr. Rogers which is about whatever it wants to be, theres shows like Zaboomafoo which has a lot of variety, but a more narrow focus.

Jonathan
Admin

While obviously nostalgia can cloud the mind, I'm going to disagree here completely when it comes to Jim Henson and the Muppets. They more than hold up after all of these years. Jim Henson exceeded brilliance and seriously, his work, especially with puppetry and the inclusion of more witty, pun-based adult-oriented mature humor in the mix of what is essential children's entertainment, has influenced children's entertainment more than I think anyone really realizes.

Henson's other stuff, especially The Dark Crystal, shows us one of the most imaginative minds the industry has EVER seen.

Marina Antunes
Guest

Just started listening to the show but a quick note: You guys are right about Sinclair's novel being little read. Sinclair's book has been out of print since the early 70's but apparently it's gone back into print in a movie tie-in.

Rusty James
Guest

"would it seem as innocuous if you knew someone almost exactly like him you had to be around almost every day?"

Personally Gio comes off as a nice enough guy, I think Kurt's friends with him or at least knows him tangentaly. And Sean and Jay are friends with him.

"(also, I tend to be annoyed by evil idiocy for evil idiocy’s sake, not whether or not it has a lot of sway)"

???? Are you a writer? Otherwise I don't get it. Sorry to go off topic I'm just legitimately intruiged.

Goon
Guest

Rusty, you'd have to email me to talk about it more. I have a hot head when Gio pisses me off and I dont want to fill up the thread with any more of this.

Henrik
Guest

Like I said, whenever people start praising their own childhood as opposed to anybody else's childhood, I get ticked off. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the entertainment they gobbled up. Speaking in generel terms, kids are idiots, and watch whatever is on TV. Then when they grow up they have a bond with it, no matter what it is.

Jonathan
Admin

Yeah, that makes sense, but I'm from the school of thought that agrees children's entertainment isn't at the same level it used to be. There is definitely some GREAT stuff going on – Pixar comes to mind – but mostly nowadays it's all about the GREEN for these studios and television executives, which is why we get force-fed crap like Cinderella 3 and the like, ya know? Naturally, even when I was young or back thirty years ago even there was crap being made, but I guess it just seems there is a lot more of it – or at least the crap gets shoved in our faces more.

It's just an observation and obviously I don't know all of the ins-and-outs of it all, but I'm convinced that it's more true than not.

Rusty James
Guest

Henrik, but sometimes the stuff you loved growing up holds up as an adult. Back to the Future, Empire Strikes Back parts of Never Ending Story. Labrynth, Dark Crystal

I have no shortage of nostalgia for my childhood, but that doesn't mean I'm uncritical towards it.

But I guess I agree. I doubt children's entertainment stopped being good in 1985. It's not like they don't have classics of their own today like The Larry Porter books and the Pokemon cards.

Henrik
Guest

"Henrik, but sometimes the stuff you loved growing up holds up as an adult."

This is true for you, true for any kid ever to have grown up, and will be true for any kid growing up in the future.

Goon
Guest

"kids are idiots, and watch whatever is on TV. "'

Kids will give a lot of crap a chance, and will like a lot of crap, but the fact that only select childrens shows become cultural phenomenons and reach audiences outside the supposed target audience ought to account for something.

"whenever people start praising their own childhood as opposed to anybody else’s childhood, I get ticked off."

Whats the difference in comparing childrens shows of the 80s vs today, and say, comparing modern horror films to ones of the early 70s? some things are better today than then, and vice versa. on avclub.com writers select their favorite year for movies in an article. If someone says 1974 is the best year for film, are they breaking your rule? I mean geez man, the Muppet Show had ended its run before I ever started watching it, whats the difference between my praise for that or say, Bugs Bunny cartoons? If I had said that no modern show can meet the quality of Howdy Doody, would I be guilty of some nostalgia trip? Where is the line of nostalgia drawn? Is a Chaplin fan nostalgic?

To me its only nostalgia when you betray your actual taste in favor of fanciful hindsight.

Henrik
Guest

I only have a problem with it if you're praising something you acquainted yourself with when you were a kid.

Goon
Guest

"I only have a problem with it if you’re praising something you acquainted yourself with when you were a kid"

Thats a pretty arbitrary rule – where do you draw the line? I saw Citizen Kane for the first time when I was 10, if I call it the best ever does that lose weight to you?

I mean seriously… in a discussion on the merits of childrens programming, I have to discount what is actually decades and decades of quality programming because I was first acquainted with them as a child? Theres no logic behind your reasoning – your claim amounts to saying an adult view is inherently tainted by seeing it first as a child…

I liked Thundercats as a child, I see it again as an adult and I can see the bad production value and writing. At the same time I can watch old TMNT episodes and see them as holding up pretty well. I can look at the Muppet Show from the 70s and still being top shelf entertainment. All these things I grew up with and you cant give me any good reason why I cant have these views.

Henrik
Guest

No, but I have a problem when you claim that people growing up now will not be able to have these same views.

Goon
Guest

where did I say that?

All I said was that I feel bad for kids who grow up without the Muppet Show – that doesnt say anything about the quality of any show they have now. You're fighting against an argument I never made.

Henrik
Guest

I misunderstood you then. Sorry about that. But I definitely feel that the Muppet Show is no more worthy of praise than say, Pokemon or Teletubbies.

Goon
Guest

Well, thats an insane hyperbolic statement, and if you feel that way, then make an actual case for it, or lets just drop it.

if you can find anything as transcendent and beautiful as this from Pokemon or the Teletubbies, present it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2TZhruT-Xs

Henrik
Guest

I consider all of those shows on the same level, and worthy of the same amount of praise from adults: Little to none. So I'm not going to look up stuff on youtube to find something beautiful. I did watch your video, and I can honestly say that I didn't feel anything. Unless you think puppets are extraordinarily beautiful, I don't get why you would either.

Either way, let's drop it now. I don't care for discussions about specific shows.

Goon
Guest

well fine then, but I think you're missing out, and have a huge elitist attitude about it. If you think they're on the 'same level' well, that accusation goes beyond subjectivity – you're simply wrong.

"little to none"

even after your enthusiasm for the TMNT movie. Tsk tsk.

Henrik
Guest

I still like action movies with humour. What does that have to do with the muppets? Just because humour doesn't involve cocks and the action doesn't involve blood, doesn't change it in my mind. Especially when it's animated.

Goon
Guest

"What does that have to do with the muppets?"

Most would consider the Ninja Turtles to be childrens entertainment only, and like those who say that about the Muppets, they are mistaken.

funny enough, the Henson team had a great deal to do with the live action TMNT movie, and was directed by Steve Barron, who also directed many of Jim Henson's "The Storyteller" episodes, another Muppet production bringing ancient stories and myths to TV.

Face it man, the Muppets are ripe with culture. You can discount them all you want, but that you'd put them on the level of Teletubbies, well, it makes it obvious when it comes to family entertainment you don't know much at all, can't see past the surface, and well… if you cant notice the themes, morals and mature references in something like the Muppet Show or Pixar films, I question how the hell you're able to pick them out of adult themed material. It really sounds like you have some chip on your shoulder in this regard, like you're above anything that wasn't strictly made for adults.

Henrik
Guest

I haven't seen the old Turtles films in ages, I don't really have much interest. The new one was just an action movie, and I thought it was great.

When you talk about the adult themes, morals and mature references in something like Pixars films… I mean here we go again. The 'depth' of something like Monsters Inc. or Toy Story is to me, nothing at all. It's inane, glossy andcompletely shallow representations of any sort of issue, but since it's animated and kids love it, adults are going crazy for any shred of content. I guess I would say that Monsters Inc is above Teletubbies (not that I have seen much of it) because it's not just zany hijinks all the time (allthough it is just that, 90% of the time). But they both work for kids, which is what I would expect. I can't relate to being a kid and watching these things enough, for me to pretend to judge them through a kids eyes. All I can do is judge them from my own point of view, and if Teletubbies were on the big screen, and I had to listen to everybody praise it for being high art, I would get just as ticked off as I get when I have to listen to how genius Pixar is.

Goon
Guest

Well, all I can do is roll my eyes, man. You can lead a horse to water…

Kurt
Guest

Pixar does what it does very well, I might even attach the 'genius' label to the pixar oddball, Brad Bird. But Really, I save the genius tag for Hiyao Miyazaki, Isao Takahata, Mamoru Oshii and Satoshi Kon.

Henrik
Guest

Not to be a jerk or anything, but just to set the record straight, I own Spirited Away and tried to watch it, but had to turn it off halfway in. I can't stand how so many asian films have people shouting constantly. It hurts my ears, literally. The only japanese films that I find to be realistic (assuming they don't constantly shout in real life, which the ones I have met do not) are the (shamefully) few parts I have seen of Ozu's films.

Goon
Guest

I remember a lot of things about Spirited Away, but I dont remember shouting.

Whats next, Grave of the Fireflies isn't funny enough?

Henrik
Guest

I have no idea what that is. It's probably fantastic though.

Goon
Guest

Grave of the Fireflies is a tragic anime about a brother and sister who have to depend on each other during the aftermath of WWII Japan. Its one of the most beloved animated films of all time and moves about 99% of the people who watch it to tears.

You won't like it.

Henrik
Guest

So much for trying to stay optimistic and give you the benefit of the doubt.

Goon
Guest

"So much for trying to stay optimistic and give you the benefit of the doubt."

Is that you talking or did you just read my mind? if the latter, good job.

Goon
Guest

(and I was joking)

Henrik
Guest

It was me talking. If you were thinking I would say that, I'm glad not to disappoint.

Kurt Halfyard
Admin

How to get a bunch of math/magic-the-gathering/sci-fi/d&d geeks to cry unabashed tears of authentic emotion?: GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES.

Joking aside, it's a fuckin' masterpiece as animated films go and tragically underseen to boot.

Marina Antunes
Guest

I'm rather surprised by the love for Sweeney Todd. I'm a big Burton fan (the only one of his films I haven't loved is Big Fish) but this was a mess. Loved the look of the film and I even didn't mind the musical numbers – as Kurt mentioned, especially when two characters are singing together to their own means or apparently on their own (my fav is Rickman and Depp together) but the rest of it was a disaster. For whatever reason the geysers of blood (which brought to mind early Sam Raimi for me) did were fun but added little, as did the constant flash back to the bodies falling into the basement – always on their necks). That really bothered me for some reason.

It's the one Burton film I really didn't like and one I don't ever need to see again.

Kurt Halfyard
Admin

Cool [*Rec] trailer. None of those scenes are actually in the movie, so it's actually a teaser of sorts, but it does capture much of the aesthetic of the film, just the camera work is 10x shakier as the camera-man is not 'immune' to what is going on and frequently drops, sets down, stops etc filming over the course of the film.

Kurt Halfyard
Admin

"I’m with you Marina. The more I think about it, the less I like Sweeney Todd. I find very little redeeming about it."

— Except for the fact that the year is 2007 and people tend to have to prey on others (which is a time honored tradition) in more subtle and devious ways. Sweeney Todd is a great and baroque metaphor for our times. That you can get throat slashing and neck-crunching into a MEGA-WIDE blockbuster musical says something in itself that makes SWEENEY TODD worthwhile. It's also a great summation of TIM BURTONS works/aesthetic/sensibility. Kinda like the ultimate intro into his quite large body of work.

I can see why people love the film, even If I only though it was merely solid. There is lots of meat to hang off of there.

Kurt Halfyard
Admin

Oh. I'm so happy that our little cinecast has generated enough debate/discussion/passion as to get the comments up to 70 in only a couple days, even if my own comment is stacking the pile here.

Henrik
Guest

Yeah comments tend to go up between me and Goon because he baits like a madman.

Goon
Guest

"It’s the one Burton film I really didn’t like and one I don’t ever need to see again."

You liked Planet of the Apes?

Goon
Guest

"Yeah comments tend to go up between me and Goon because he baits like a madman."

I'm the baiter? Me? I'm not the one who compared the Muppet Show to the Teletubbies.

and as of yet (the word is 'yet') i dont have an adjective named after me.

Henrik
Guest

Yes, you're the baiter.

Marina Antunes
Admin

Goon – Didn't hate it. Can't say it's my favorite but no, I didn't hate it.

"Kinda like the ultimate intro into his quite large body of work."

Ummmm I sure as hell hope not. This is easily on the bottom (or near it) of the pile of Burton films. I can't imagine anyone watching this and feeling the need to see more. Why not start them off with something better? To me, that's like saying that "Inland Empire" is a good intro to Lynch (though I loved IE)!

Again, loved the LOOK of Todd but that's not enough to make the film worthwhile. And for some reason, the fact that the daughter/young sailor story was forgotten about at the closing of the film really irks me.

Kurt Halfyard
Admin

Fair Enough Marina (on the IE analogy, i read you). I totally understand about the daughter/sailor story, it was totally jettisoned for no particular reason, sure it was a side plot, but a major enough one to have several songs devoted to it, why drop it completely?

I still think Todd is a great intro to Burton though, even if it is a bit of an everything at once kind of a approach. If I saw Sweeney Todd as his first film, I'd be pretty excited to find out more.

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